"After we liberate Palestine, what will we do with the Israeli war criminals? I am not a Nelson Mandela fan in this regard. Truth? Yes. Forgiveness? No. No way. Never. Reconciliation? Well, yes, but after liberation and justice, not before."
As'ad Abu Khalil
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All well and good from the safety of Modesto, California, He will not have to live with the consequences of that mentality.
ReplyDeleteThe resistance-minded Arab American seems to be in perpetual fantasy.
ReplyDeleteSneer, sneer - let's keep our political opinions at the parish pump level and leave the war criminals to roam free.
ReplyDeleteLet me guess, the Brit wants the Israelis and Palestinians to fight forever to fulfill some perverse pleasure.
ReplyDeleteHow typical. The Brits sparked this conflict with their incompetent administration between 1918 and 1948.
As'ad Abu Khalil isn't a Palestinian. What right does he have to ask the Palestinians to fight the Israelis forever so that Khalil can get some high. Because that is what Khalil's statement really is; a call for eternal war.
No forgiveness? Doesn't every religion in the world demand forgiveness? Without reconciliation neither Israelis nor Palestinians have any hope.
This is a clarification question. What is the meaning of "War Criminals"? Is it just a few hundred Israeli politicians? Or is it large numbers of ordinary Israelis. If it is the later; then Khalil has lost it.
'<span>What is the meaning of "War Criminals"?'</span>
ReplyDeleteI was gonna ask the same question. Judging by how the Arabs of the Levant have "reconciled" with the Iraqi Shia, I don't have high hopes for true reconciliation between Israel and the Arabs.
I don't expect Israel to take the necessary steps for reconciliation either.
"<span>I don't expect Israel to take the necessary steps for reconciliation either. </span>" Unfortunately, I share this fear. How could Israelis elect a schmuck like Lieberman?
ReplyDeleteKhalil favors a one state, one person one vote free democracy in Palestine Israel. How in the world does this statement by Khalil help bring this about? Only if Israelis feel that the Palestinians will treat them as family; will some Israelis be open to a one state solution. Otherwise, why would Israelis want reunification and merger with people who they believe hate them?
war criminals are those guilty of war crimes. war crimes are "serious violations of the laws and customs of war and international humanitarian law applicable in armed conflicts (internal and international include willful killing, torture, inhuman treatment, willfully causing great suffering or serious injury, extensive destruction or appropriation of property not justified by military necessity, unlawful deportation or transfer or displacement of the civilian population and intentionally directing attacks against civilian populations. They also include property offenses such as pillage and unlawfully destroying or seizing property"
ReplyDeleteparaphrase from ICJ report on corporate crimes.
ie. no double standards
ReplyDelete"No forgiveness? Doesn't every religion in the world demand forgiveness." asks an idiot.
ReplyDeleteDid you find that heap of shit on the dunghill you inhabit, you racist pariah? All monotheist religions demand blood. And not just monotheists. How many Muslims has your Army of Shiva massacred?
Chupre, bahinchot! Keep your filthy racist opinions to your sick self.
Judaism, Islam and Christianity all honor forgiveness. So do the Zorastrians and the great eastern traditions.
ReplyDeleteKilling an enemy in anger or for revenge is an immoral sin in Hinduism. Hinduism demands that one loves and respects ones enemy. The enemy has to be killed with respect.
Legal I, I understand where you are coming from. You porbably only favor trials against a few dozen top Israeli officials; and truth and reconciliation for all the rest; similar to what happened in Nurenburg.
ReplyDeleteHowever, based on Khalil's quote, I am not sure that Khalil agrees with you.
BTW, I found a great article about from a Pakistani American about Israel that summarizes my feelings quite well.
Could you guys post it? It was written by a friend of a friend.
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/5151607-from-pakistan-to-israel
ReplyDelete"I visited the Arava Institute for Environmental Studies in the Negev that aims to bring Palestinian and Israelis together for ecological peace-building exercises, I was given some startling news. It is more difficult for the institute to recruit conservative Israelis to work with Palestinians than it is to recruit Palestinians. So far the institute has not been able to get a single ultra-orthodox Jew or anyone from the Jewish settlements to take courses with Palestinians as a peace-building measure in its decade of operations. One Jewish-American student at the institute told me that his own relatively secular brother had chided him for going to study "alongside Arabs."
Sadly the same tone of conversations persisted throughout my visit. I often find myself defending Israel when I travel in the Muslim world but was alarmed by the apathy and dismissal towards peace-building in even relatively liberal parts of Israeli society. No doubt, there are some very well-intentioned Israeli peace-builders, such as the staff of the Porter institute for Environmental Studies and the Van Leer Institute, who hosted me and who genuinely want reconciliation with Syria. There was even a resident farmer and academic scholar from the Golan Heights whom I visited, Yigal Kipnis, who expressed a willingness to relocate if peace involved giving land back to Syria in exchange for security and joint environmental monitoring. This was particularly admirable to hear as I sipped tea in his beautiful citrus orchard on the slopes of the Golan. However, such brave peacemakers are being increasingly marginalized within Israel."
I have the solution
ReplyDeletePalestinians should get that imbecile Zionist bigot racist sectarian Fuckwitt anan to pray for his ilk "Forgive them god for they now not what they do".
<span>However, based on Khalil's quote, I am not sure that Khalil agrees with you.
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Still unable to read and understand a simple sentence anan? Where do you see that As'ad isn't in favor of a Nuremberg like trials? Where?
Yasmin, we could research this. I was told by a German that the German government authorized the Nurenburg trials.
ReplyDeleteTherefore, for Nurenburg type trials for top Israeli leaders to occur, the Israeli government would need to authorize them. What is your strategy Legal I, for persuading Israel to authorize trials of Israeli war criminals?
<span>How could Israelis elect a schmuck like Lieberman? </span>
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Ha ha. Cute! Never heard of Begin, Dayan, Sharon, Barak to name only a few?
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ReplyDelete<p><span>"who expressed a willingness to relocate if peace involved giving land back to Syria"</span>
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</p><p>ZID
</p><p>Relocate where, Back to Russia or another stolen property ?
</p></span>
<span>"as I sipped tea in his beautiful citrus orchard on the slopes of the Golan."</span>
ReplyDelete-------
ZID
His <span>beautiful citrus orchard</span><span> <span> ??????????</span></span>
<span>For Israeli criminals, I favor the kind of truth and reconciliation conducted at the Nuremberg trials.</span>
ReplyDeleteExactly
<span>" I often find myself defending Israel when I travel in the Muslim world but was alarmed by the apathy and dismissal towards peace-building in even relatively liberal parts of Israeli society."</span>
ReplyDelete--------
ZID
Your friend's friend is equally stupid,the Zionist entity will sing peace peace , but steal and kill is their agenda , they "the Moslem world" clearly understand that .
Not entirely false BUT one can respond that from the safety of your home you too chose the kind of approach and attitude the Palestinians should adopt (BTW, it's not a Palestinian issue only. The Lebanese sufferd too at the hands of Israel))..No one can guarantee it would be less costly physically and otherwise to just lay down and surrender or wait for the genocidal Israelis to become sensible or reasonable . I too believe that non violence can sometimes achieve better results but that doesn't discard the idea that the outcome should bring along justice as well.
ReplyDelete<span><span>As'ad Abu Khalil isn't a Palestinian.</span>
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He doesn't need to be and I don't need to either. Not only because we Lebanese and Palestinians are one people but ALSO because Israel has caused immense misery to the Lebanese. From 1982 (20,000 victims) to 2006 (1400 victims if I'm not mistaken) not to mention in between. .. You have a poor memory, dear.</span>
<span>Judaism, Islam and Christianity all honor forgiveness.</span>
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I wonder where the motto "Never forget never forgive " that many Jews have adopted came from.
TGIA, I have heard this. I don't think this is true "Judaism." This is a corruption of the great Abrahamic Isaac Jacob, Moses faith.
ReplyDeleteIf Palestinians and Lebanese are one people; why can't Israel, Palestinians and Lebanese be one people too?
ReplyDeleteWhy do some Lebanese mistreat Palestinian immigrants who live in Lebanon? I love Lebanon by the way.
<span>'<span>What is the meaning of "War Criminals"?'</span></span>
ReplyDelete<span>I was gonna ask the same question.</span>
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I'm sure you know what it means mojo. BTW, this is a very serious issue. Minimising the amplitude of these war crimes (remember Qana 1 and 2 to name just a tiny few?) is not the way to go..The victims are not forgotten specifically by their families.
"In War: Resolution. In Defeat: Defiance. In Victory: Magnanimity. In Peace: Goodwill."
ReplyDeleteWinston Churchill
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ReplyDelete<p>'On January 14, 1942, representatives from the nine occupied countries met in London to draft the Inter-Allied Resolution on German War Crimes. At the meetings in Tehran (1943), Yalta (1945) and Potsdam (1945), the three major wartime powers, the United States, the Soviet Union and the United Kingdom, agreed on the format of punishment for those responsible for war crimes during World War II. France was also awarded a place on the tribunal.
</p><p>The legal basis for the trial was established by the London Charter, issued on August 8, 1945, which restricted the trial to "punishment of the major war criminals of the European Axis countries." Some 200 German war crimes defendants were tried at Nuremberg, and 1,600 others were tried under the traditional channels of military justice. The legal basis for the jurisdiction of the court was that defined by the Instrument of Surrender of Germany, political authority for Germany had been transferred to the Allied Control Council, which having sovereign power over Germany could choose to punish violations of international law and the laws of war. Because the court was limited to violations of the laws of war, it did not have jurisdiction over crimes that took place before the outbreak of war on September 3, 1939.'
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</p></span>
Legally, I believe the German government did authorize the Nurenberg trials. This authority was used by the allied powers to organize the trials on behalf of the German government.
ReplyDeleteBTW, I have never discussed Palestine with this German friend. I rarely do with people I meet in real life.
The ICC is an interesting concept. It wasn't used in the 1940s.
Do you think the ICC should be used to try Israeli top officials for crimes instead of Nurenberg?
The problem with that option is that most countries around the world commit crimes against humanity on a regular basis. As a result, most countries (China, India, South Korea, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, America, Brazil, Venezuela, Mexico, Argentina, South Africa, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Russia, every Arab country etc.) don't want to use the ICC against Israelis for fear it might be used in the future against them.
As a result the ICC is currently "defanged" so to speak. How to convince the UN and international community to give the ICC some teeth in the current global environment?
Mojo, the point is that the German government formally gave the allied authority to run the Nurenberg trials. The German Government formally gave away sovereign powers to the allied powers.
ReplyDeleteMuch as France did to Germany on June 22, 1940.
<span><span><span>Churchill could TALK (beautifully) about "magnanimity" in victory but what the Allies proceeded to after victory was Nuremberg !! Not very magnanimous (albeit just)..</span></span>
ReplyDeleteA side note: The carpet bombing of Dresden(ordered by Churchill) was not out of "resolution" but out of complete and utter barbarity.</span>
I disagreee TGIA. Most Germans hated the Nazis. The Allies liberated Germany, which is why the Germans supported the Nuremberg trials against the people who destroyed their country.
ReplyDeleteAfter 1945, Germany recieved massive economic grants to rebuild and reconstruct. Soon Germany became far more prosperous and successful than it was during Nazi rule.
Germany willingly joined NATO and allied itself with other countries.
TGIA, magnanimity in victory is very important. This is a common theme in world religions, philosophies and history.
Generally, victors tend to be magnanimous.
Israel broke the rule and wasn't in 1948, 1967, 1973 and 1982. Israel suffered accordingly. Israel was more magnanimous in 1956, which worked out better for them.
First, let me be unequivocal in stating that Israel has a right to exist because its people have worked and fought hard to win that right
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I stopped here. I don't agree.
Not that I know what zionist means. Mojo can vouch for who I am.
ReplyDeleteYasmin, most Germans hated the Nazis for destroying their country and looked upon the Nuremburg trials with satisfaction.
"<span>and i'm sure israel at a certain stage israel can and will be similarly coerced. </span>" How can this happen? Not even America seems to have much influence over them. Israel regularly kicks America around.
Yasmin, do you have a plan to convince Japan, China, India, Brazil, Turkey, Russia, and the other great global powers to pressure Israel?
What is this plan?
These countries will not abondon their friendship with Israel unless the Palestinians can give them a better offer (money, technology, business development etc.)
If your plan is to coerce Israel, than this is a long term decadal, generational plan that focuses on increasing Palestinian capacity and global influence. Only then that Palestine coerce other countries into pressuring Israel to change its ways.
In other words, Palestine must become a rich, successful, hegemonistic, imperialist global superpower to win her freedom. Palestine must become what Israel, India, China, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Brazil, America and the world's other great powers are now.
Palestine can do it. Notice how India has become so much richer and more powerful in such a short period of time. China too. Today both countries are great global superpowers that influence the world as they choose.
By this I think you mean Israelis don't have the right to exist in the current status quo.
ReplyDeleteHowever, Palestine and Israel both have a right to exist under just conditions; either as a one state reunified solution (which Asad and I think Legal I favor, or as a two state solution which I think TGIA favors.)
TGIA, I often read things I don't agree with. However, notice how Israelis do not treat Palestinians respectfully.
I was told by a very smart Israeli Hedge mutual fund manager that I didn't understand "the Arab mind." My ideas were apparently unrealistic because somehow the "Arabs" were implicitly uncivilized or hostile to Israel.
I find this attitude highly offensive. This is why I highlighted parts of his article.
<span><span>Not that I know what zionist means.</span>
ReplyDelete-------------
Google..It's free of charge.</span>
BTW, do you realise how ridiculous it is to discuss the I/P conflict while ignoring the meaning of the word Zionist. It's like discussing the big bang theory while believing in the flat earth theory.
You didn't read my post, or you have a comprehension problem bec ause you're totally beside the point I made.
ReplyDeleteAnd please do not lecture me on magnanimity. You know jack about the Arabs and the concept of magnanimity embedded deep in their culture and their history..
<span> Most Germans hated the Nazis</span>
ReplyDelete-----------------
*DONT_KNOW*
The Nuremberg trials were limited in scope. We did not declare all or even most Germans war criminals. The Allies did not repeat the mistakes of World War I with a Treaty of Versailles punishment on the whole people. Instead we helped rebuild the country.
ReplyDeleteI can readily understand why a conquered and oppressed people would want total justice but in the end, Nelson Mandela's approach will prove the right course to take for all sides. Wallowing in the grievances of the past does NOBODY any good. Some people, like the Assyrians and Armenians, have seen NO JUSTICE at all, not even a partial one.
"<span> can readily understand why a conquered and oppressed people would want total justice</span>"
ReplyDeleteVZA, I don't understand. Doesn't "total justice" mean an end to oppression and abuse, and the opportunity to be successful? Where does "total justice" mean punishing someone else?
Unfortunately Churchill wasn't the only Brit the above could be said for.
ReplyDeleteRacist turd!
ReplyDelete<span><span>anan</span>
ReplyDelete<span>You didn't read my post, or you have a comprehension problem bec ause you're totally beside the point I made.
And please do not lecture me on magnanimity. You know jack about the Arabs and the concept of magnanimity embedded deep in their culture and their history..</span></span>