I'm going to leave the debate about whether Iran's election was "stolen" and the domestic implications within Iran to people who actually know what they're talking about (which is a very small subset of the class purporting to possess such knowledge). But there is one point I want to make about the vocal and dramatic expressions of solidarity with Iranians issuing from some quarters in the U.S.
Glenn Greenwald
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<h1 class="title">Your Guide To Following The Iranian Election Protests Online</h1>
ReplyDeletehttp://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2009-06/your-guide-following-iranian-election-protests-online
Your Guide To Following The Iranian Election Protests Online
ReplyDeletehttp://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2009-06/your-guide-following-iranian-election-protests-online
Whether or not there was fraud, I believe that Ahminejad would have won anyway. My reason for that is simple, the British media were already programming the British public to think that an Ahminejad win could only be achieved by ballot-rigging. They knew that their client was heading for a fall.
ReplyDeleteI'm also inclined to believe that if Moussavi had won the election he wouldn't have been as pliant - sorry, moderate -as our opinion formers would have us believe.
Now let's see if this comment goes down the memory hole. (J. Hope, alias Guest)
Well! If Chavez says it was a victory, how dare those Iranians continue protesting in the streets?
ReplyDelete#1 of the Leftist primer on elections: If the candidate is anti-American, support him/her no matter how horrendous, destructive, and oppressive his domestic policies.
<span style="color: #000000;">"In a telephone conversation with the Iranian president, Chavez said, “The victory of Dr. Ahmadinejad in the recent election is a win for all people in the world and free nations against global arrogance,” Iran’s Presidential Office reported. Chavez usually uses the term “global arrogance” to refer to Venezuela’s arch-foe the United States" </span>
http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=196646
I agree about Moussavi. From what I have read of him, he can hardly be called a moderate. But our opinion formers, as you say, have not really made any claims that he would be pliant/moderate. Everything I have read has been rather skeptical.
ReplyDelete<h1>Would an Iran with Moussavi at the helm look different?</h1>
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/06/15/iran.elections.analysis/
Would an Iran with Moussavi at the helm look different?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/06/15/iran.elections.analysis/
VZA, Moussavi's public statements suggest he wanted signficant change. The real question is what change Khamenei would have let Moussavi make. Khatami also wanted significant change but could do little since Khamenei disagreed with him.
ReplyDeleteMoussavi publicly argued that Iran should negotiate on centrifuges and enriched Uranium to end Iran's global isolation and sanctions. Moussavi also publicly wanted to improve relations with other countries including the US.
Most Iranians are furious that global multinationals (whether headquartered in Korea, China, US, India, Europe, Brazil, or Japan) are not able to invest and do business in Iran. There is a lot of public anger about the dysfunctional Iranian economy. Mousavi tapped into this anger.
Iranians are a very proud and sophisticated people. Iranians don't like the fact that since 2005 Iran has been one of the two least popular countries in the world (according to many Pew international opinion surveys) along with Israel. Iran ranks significantly below North Korea in international surveys.
Keep in mind that Iran publicly supports the Iraqi government, the Iraqi Army, the Afghan government, the Afghan National Army, and is at war with AQ linked networks. Why wouldn't Iran want to collaborate with the international community to achieve Iran's national priorities? Why wouldn't Iran want large gobal companies such as Infosys (from India), China Telecom, GE, Tata Consulting, Sony (Japan), Samsung (Korea), to do business inside Iran? This isn't possible unless Iran improves its relations with the international community.
Who really wants Iran to remain internationally isolated and remain under international sanctions?
Chavez is hypocritical. He wants Iran to continue with Nuclear weaponization program and therefore remain under international sanctions. Simultaneously, Chavez refuses to conduct a nuclear weaponization program, because Chavez doesn't want Venezuela to be placed under sanctions.
ReplyDeleteChavez screams whenever protectionist wackos (a la Lou Dobbs, Amy Goodman, Jesse Jackson, Pat Buchanan, Anne Coulter) in America want to impose sanctions on American imports from Venezuela. Yet this same Chavez is okay with Iran remaining under global sanctions indefinitely.
<h2 class="date-header">June 8, 2009</h2>
ReplyDelete<h3 class="post-title entry-title">Mir-Hossein Mousavi's Iran/Contra Connection?</h3>
<h2 class="EC_EC_date-header"><span><span style=" color: #c00000;">http://revolutionaryflowerpot.blogspot.com/2009/06/mir-hossein-mousavis-irancontra.html</span></span></h2>
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<h2><span style="">"I am for truth, no matter who tells it"-- Malcolm X</span>
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<h2>Iran's 'Stolen' Election: a Hardline Demagouge's Victory Over a 'Reformer'? Not So Fast</h2>
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<span style="color: #c00000;">http://www.alternet.org/story/140636/</span></h5>
Marion, If you want to get rid of all the fluff on your posts. Submit it. Copy it. Delete it. and post it again and remove all the <<<>>> and then submit comment and voila! all the fluff is gone!
ReplyDeleteOOps! I just noticed here is no delete button when you reply to someone's comment.
ReplyDeletevza, any comment can be deleted.
ReplyDeleteMarion, Saddam initially seemed to be defeating Iran in the 1980-1988 war. For this reason, Israel rushed supplies to help Iran--Persia has long been the historic allies of the Jews/Isrealis. Khomeini, Mousavi and Khamenei all were deeply involved in Iran accepting Israeli help.
Unfortunately the whole world backed the evil Saddam against Khomeini. Only Israel backed Iran in that war. It turns out that Israel was right and the rest of the world was wrong.
Do you really think Iran shouldn't have accepted Israeli help? Do you think letting Saddam over run Iran would have been better than taking Israeli help?
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<td style="padding: 4px 10px;" valign="top">I am an Iranian, a descendant of Cyrus the Great. This emperor proclaimed at the pinnacle of power 2,500 years ago that he 'would not reign over the people if they did not wish it.' He promised not to force any person to change his religion and faith and guaranteed freedom for all. The Charter of Cyrus the Great should be studied in the history of human rights.<sup></sup><span>[</span>64<span>]</span></td>
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<div class="js-singleCommentText">"I am an Iranian, a descendant of Cyrus the Great. This emperor proclaimed at the pinnacle of power 2,500 years ago that he 'would not reign over the people if they did not wish it.' He promised not to force any person to change his religion and faith and guaranteed freedom for all. The Charter of Cyrus the Great should be studied in the history of human rights.</div>
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<div class="js-singleCommentText">-Shirin Ebadi
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Shirin Ebadi:
ReplyDelete"I am an Iranian, a descendant of Cyrus the Great. This emperor proclaimed at the pinnacle of power 2,500 years ago that he 'would not reign over the people if they did not wish it.' He promised not to force any person to change his religion and faith and guaranteed freedom for all. The Charter of Cyrus the Great should be studied in the history of human rights.
Shirin Ebadi:
ReplyDelete"I am an Iranian, a descendant of Cyrus the Great. This emperor proclaimed at the pinnacle of power 2,500 years ago that he 'would not reign over the people if they did not wish it.' He promised not to force any person to change his religion and faith and guaranteed freedom for all. The Charter of Cyrus the Great should be studied in the history of human rights."
With support like this, how can they be wrong?
ReplyDeleteRule #2 Leftist Primer for elections: Claim that any protests against the thug-in- chief are because of outisde interference from the Great Satan.
"Kim in the message said that his reelection as Iranian president is the expression of support and trust of the Iranian people in him and sincerely wished him success in his responsible work to frustrate pressure and interference of outsiders and build independent and prosperous Iran."
http://raymankojast.blogspot.com/2009/06/dprks-kim-yong-nam-sends-irans.html
"Only Israel backed Iran ..." Are you censoring your own memory, Dr. Pangloss? The US under Reagan-Kissinger-Weinberger-Haig backed and armed both sides to keep the bloody conflict going.
ReplyDeleteIsrael backed Khomeini. Look up the data.
ReplyDeleteSaddam's main backers were USSR, France and India. Although China, UK, Germany, Italy, Japan, and US and many other countries also backed Saddam.
Israel alone backed Iran. Israel obtained US spare parts and munitions for Iran. One of these transactions became famous as Iran Contra.
Saddam was furious about the Israel/Iran relationship. Saddam tried to kill Oliver North and his family, as well as many others who were involved.
Why did Khomeini and Khamenei betray Israel? They took Israeli help in the 1980s, but then stabbed Israel in the back afterwards.
ReplyDeleteBTW, I think any country that supports Palestinians should be commended. To the degree Iranians do this, this is good. However, Khamenei is doing a lot of things that harm both Palestinians and Israelis. For example, Khamenei persuaded Hamas to shoot rockets at Israel last December, and later persuaded Hamas and Islamic Jihad not to accept an early cease fire with Israel (on terms similar to what Hamas eventually agreed to.)
Note that after Hamas attacked Israel (in a conventional war), Khamnei and Nasrallah left Hamas out to dry and refused significant direct support (except to encourage Hamas to fight on.)
Khamenei has supported terrorist attacks against Israeli citizens that harm both Israelis and Palestinians. Why? Why did Khamenei betray Israel?
A brief history of modern Iran.
ReplyDeleteNow let's see if this comment goes down the memory hole. (J. Hope, alias Guest)
ReplyDelete-------------
Do you mean it happened systematically Jemmy? If one comment or two disappeared this could be explained by the fact that JS-kit has completed its take over of Haloscan. We had yesterday a new platform. This has created some issues with comments. Still, I can't see why your comments as Jemmy are disappearing!! This is incompprehensible to me!
test
ReplyDeleteWell, we can be sure of one thing - those in Iran, whatever the persuasion, do not want the assistance of the USA or the West in their election - nor do they wish to be "liberated."
ReplyDeleteUS POLICY TOWARDS IRAN
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTGf4X_Qjew
v, based on the best data that is available, which is sketchy, the large majority of Iranians want good relations with the US, and every other country for that matter.
ReplyDeleteDo you really think Iranians don't want the power to elect their own leaders in free one person one vote elections? V, you can't be that naive.
This said, I think Iranians want to lead the effort to win their own freedom.
Israel backed Khomeini.
ReplyDelete-----------
Now why would they do such a thing I wonder!!-----
Why did Khamenei betray Israel?"
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Israel can kiss Khamenei's ass and while it's at it can kiss mine too! Israel sucks! Israel is a colony. Israel is a genocidal and should be given the boot! Israel should pay for its crimes against humanity. Israel is an artificial, racist ethnocentric piece of formidable shit!!!
Oh yeah!!
Israel backed Khomeini.
ReplyDelete-----------
Now why would they do such a thing I wonder!!-----
Why did Khamenei betray Israel?"
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Israel can kiss Khamenei's ass and while it's at it can kiss mine too! Israel sucks! Israel is a colony. Israel is a genocidal, rogue state and should be given the boot! Israel should pay for its crimes against humanity. Israel is an artificial, racist ethnocentric piece of formidable shit!!!
And much more than that but I'm too lazy today, I have a headache!
You don't have that in the USA, why should you care about it in Iran?
ReplyDeletewhat in the world are you talking about?
ReplyDeleteHow did the Messiah get elected?
TGIA, you care about Palestinians. I am glad they have a friend like you.
ReplyDeleteIf Khomenei and Khamenei had publicly thanked Israel, but then insisted that as greatful as they were to Israel, their greater obligation was to help the Palestinians, I would respect that. This is not what Khamenei and Khomeini did. Khomeini and Khamenei could have offered to repay Israel for Israel's support of Iran during a difficult hour, contingent on Israel doing right by the Palestinians. Khomeini and Khamenei didn't do that either.
In my book, ingratitude is one of the worst of sins.
You are what we term, in almost all matters, embarrassingly stupid Anand
ReplyDeleteThe huge rallies and placards in Tehran make Issa, the Cairo editor, envious: "The current Egyptian system was built on fraud while the Iranian revolution was built by the people, and that is why they are fighting for such a system," he said. "The bottom line is that unlike Iran, we are politically dead."
ReplyDeleteIran's revolutionary spirit, evident 30 years ago in the Islamic Revolution, has been unbottled again. And for the Arab world it is a lesson in resistance and a maturing democracy that may be controlled by clerics but is expressing its will in the streets and in blips of texts and tweets.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-iran-image17-2009jun17,0,5364897.story
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrWJmU2DzDQ&feature=related
ReplyDeleteOh, now we are going to quote Fleishman who had an orgasm about Suleiman in Egypt, the one responsible for keeping Egypt on a leash of the US and Israel (another vza post). Who called Egypt a "democracy," of course if Israel is a democracy anything is a democracy -
ReplyDeletehttp://articles.latimes.com/2008/jul/16/world/fg-suleiman16
This is what I call the sourcing of stupidity, it abounds on this site. People not able to discern the din of empire, colonialism and Zionsim (all related) - quoting from the noise they call the "free press." It is simply amazing, that is all I have to say, this group of people with eyes wide shut. Wading in water they have no business in because they cannot swim.
TGIA, could you consider a post on these Iranian poll results. They showed widespread support for a free trade agreement with the US (which I support, being a free trader like Ron Paul.) They also show widespread support for better relations with the US and every other country except for Israel.
ReplyDeleteIn fact the poll shows that most Iranians are willing to recognize Israel (which is strongly disliked by most Iranians) in return for better relations with the US.
v, could you discuss the poll results?
Please consider a post on the Iranian poll:
http://www.terrorfreetomorrow.org/upimagestft/TFT%20Iran%20Survey%20Report%200609.pdf
The Iranian people seem remarkably free market to me. They also seem to want to be friends with America and other capitalist countries.
If Khomenei and Khamenei had publicly thanked Israel, but then insisted that as greatful as they were to Israel, their greater obligation was to help the Palestinians, I would respect that.
ReplyDelete-------
Thank Israel for what? Is Israel a benefactor to humanity now?? If true Israel helped Iran what was the reason one should ask!!
How did the Messiah get elected?
ReplyDelete--------
This messiah thing is becoming embarrassing really!
Your explanation of a takeover seems to be on the button, TG. I've now registered under a version of my name that the Hidden Masters allowed. But yes, one or two entries appeared and later disappeared. Some never appeared at all. I'll just take a leaf out of Anand's book of excuses and blame those mysterious Takfiris (Takfiria?)
ReplyDeleteStill a guest I see.
ReplyDeleteHooray! No longer a guest.
ReplyDeleteTGIA, Israel helped Khomeini because it feared Saddam; and because Israelis remember their alliance with Persia since the 6th century BC (Cyrus the Great.) Israel hoped to improve its relations with Iran . . . which many Israelis thought shared common interests with Israel. As part of this effort, Israel also tried to help Amal in the Lebonese civil war (1982.)
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately for Israel, the Lebanese Shia turned on Israel. After 1988 so did Khomeini and Khamenei.
Did you see a you tube clip of the "One" killing a fly on his first attempt. There is something magical about him.
ReplyDeletebecause Israelis remember their alliance with Persia since the 6th century BC (Cyrus the Great.)
ReplyDelete----------
Ha ha!! You give credit to that BS claim of historical legitimacy for the existence of a state founded by a heteroclite group of European and American colonisers?!!!! How sad!!
TGIA, I greatly respect the Torah and Bible (and have read large parts of them.) I also greatly respect that you are atheist.
ReplyDeleteTGIA, you can love Jews and the Jewish faith while strongly disagreeing with Israeli policies.