"The Guardians Council
I read that the Guardians Council insisted that it would only permit a partial recount. That unelected lousy body has proven that it is as undemocratic as the unelected lousy anti-democratic body called the US Supreme Court."
The Angry Arab
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Obviously western style Democracy, just like the Islamic Republic of Iran, does not have a nice neat flawless system of governing, does it? What system of governent in the history of mankind has ever proven that it does? But what bothers me most about western Style Democracy it that it thinks it has the MORAL SUPERIORITY to SELECTIVELY dictate, based on its interests, how the rest of the world's governments should be ran...
ReplyDeleteMarion, the vast majority of Iranians want the ability to elect the supreme leader. Iran is a dictatorship lead by the Supreme Leader, who is unelected.
ReplyDeleteThe Supreme Court justices are each nominated by the elected US president and approved by the US Senate. It is more democratic than the Guardians Council.
anand, instead of comparing the U.S. Democracy to the Iranian Republic which was not the crux of my comment. I would appreciate it if you would please address my stated concern of what bothers me most about western Style Democracy it that it thinks it has the MORAL SUPERIORITY to SELECTIVELY dictate, based on its interests, how the rest of the world's governments should be ran...
ReplyDeleteThank you....
the moral superiority is just the facade for undo aggression Marion. I mean, why embellish the issue?
ReplyDelete"That unelected lousy body has proven that it is as undemocratic as the unelected lousy anti-democratic body called the US Supreme Court."
ReplyDeleteSilly comparison. He'd find out real fast the huge difference between the two bodies if he had not chosen to live in the country with the lousy anti-democratic body called the US Supreme Court. I can just see how well the angryarab would do in Iran! If I recall, some of his comrades, among other political prisoners, were murdered in the 80's.
"That unelected lousy body has proven that it is as undemocratic as the unelected lousy anti-democratic body called the US Supreme Court."
ReplyDeleteSilly comparison. He'd find out real fast the huge difference between the two bodies if he had not chosen to live in the country with the lousy anti-democratic body called the US Supreme Court. I can just see how well the angryarab would do in Iran! If I recall, a whole bunch of his comrades, among other political prisoners, were slaughtered in the 80's. after thinking they were allies of the mad mullahs.
Not that I condone these executions, but my question is at the time of their arrests and subsequent executions, were these political prisoners trying to overthrow the Islamic Republic which was voted into mandate by the people by assassinating leaders? Or were they just peacefully protesting? Because I happen to know that many leaders in the Iranian government had been assasinated in the eighties...
ReplyDeleteHere is some backgruond:
ReplyDelete"In a well-planned move plotted in secret, only two years after the revolution, in June 1981, the Islamic regime decided to eliminate all the revolutionary and progressive forces, members and supporters alike and everyone associated with them. The plan was immense and horrible, but they were determined to kill off the revolution once and for all. They began with mass arrests of communists and other revolutionary activists whose organizations were gaining ground and growing fast. They executed the majority of them and sentenced the rest to long prison terms. Among those murdered were hundreds if not thousands of veteran communists and revolutionaries who had taken an active part in the revolution after long years fighting the Shah's regime and its U.S. imperialist masters. Many had spent years in the Shah's prisons and withstood the tortures administered by the Savak (the Shah's intelligence service). The Islamic authorities also did not spare teenagers who might have done nothing more than give out the leaflets of a revolutionary organization or might have been caught with one of those leaflets in their possession."
http://revcom.us/a/146/AWTW-iran-20th-en.html
Sorry, correction: background
ReplyDeleteHopefully, the US will have learned its lesson.
ReplyDeleteOr perhaps not.
My sentiments precisely: Ask questions more than you volunteer answers.
ReplyDeleteSure, and the US did the same thing two times in Iraq, a list was made both times - under saddam and afterward (and it was done in Iran after the Shah, as a matter of history). Of course, we know that if the US or other entities decided to overthrow Iran, this would not be the case - killing the commies and lefties, perish the thought! they would welcome them with open arms...
ReplyDeleteMarion, most countries in the world (Japan, Brazil, India, Mexico, Europe, Indonesia, South Korea, Malaysia, Chile, Singapore, Argentina, US, Australia, Canada, Taiwan, Bangladesh etc.) have one way of government. Iran's government is very different from the vast majority of countries. Why can't the Iranian people have what the large majority of people around the world have?
ReplyDeleteMarion, Khomeini didn't allow free and fair elections after siezing power like most of the 1979 revolutionaries wanted. Jimmy Carter helped Khomeini and the revolutionaries overthrow the Shah in the hopes that progressive forces would be empowered. That didn't happen.
ReplyDeleteMarion, do you think Khomeini had a right to kill or arrest people who thought that there should be free elections? Why did Khomeini have any more right to do so than the Shah (which Khomeini use to support)?
Why can't they have a government of their own making anand, why do you think they need to copy cat the West in order to be morally superior? Can't you see how morally decedent the West has been and is becoming in so many ways?
ReplyDeleteThis was me asking this question by the way, I was just using a different computer at the time...
ReplyDeleteanand,
ReplyDeleteAs I told you before I do not buy into your account of history which is suspect...
Marion, why can't Iranians select their own governments.
ReplyDeleteA question for you. Are the following governments "Western"?
-South Korea
-Brazil
-India
-Argentina
-Singapore
-Thailand
-Japan
-Chile
-Indonesia
-Bangladesh
-Malaysia
-Taiwan
-Mexico
What is "western"? Why can't Iranians select their own leaders. The large majority of Iranians want to be able to elect the Supreme Leader. Why can't they do it? Why can't Iranians who Khamenei does not like run for public office?
Marion, why don't you place your faith in Grand Ayatollah Hosain Montazeri (once thought likely to be Khomeini's successor.) Khamenei has placed Montazeri under house arrest. I believe Khamenei has betrayed Iran and betrayed you.
"Can't you see how morally decedent the West has been and is becoming in so many ways?" Marion you have a point. Some aspects of westernized culture are concerning. I would observe, however, that negative values are increasingly coming from nonwestern societies too. I don't think it is fair to completely blame "the west" for negative values in the nonwestern world.
ReplyDeleteWhile you have a point on how young people are being seduced by negative values; how is this related to people being able to choose their own leaders (democracy)?
What part of it is suspect?
ReplyDeleteIn 1925, the Quom Marjeya (in collaboration with others) helped overthrow the Qajar Shah dynasty (that ruled 1794-1925) and put in power the Pahlavi Shah dynasty. In 1953, they helped the Pahlavi Shah push back an attempt by Mossedeq to sieze power (in collaboration with many others.) A young Khomeini was part of this effort in 1953.
In 1979, Carter didn't like the Shah. Carter tried to destabilize the Shah and supported Khomeini to do so. Carter thought that removing the Shah would empower "progressive forces." I don't believe that Carter wanted a Khomeini dictatorship. I think Carter had no real idea what he was doing.
In 1980, the brilliant Carter came up with the <span style="text-decoration: underline;">brilliant</span> plan of backing Saddam Hussein against Khomeini. Sarcasm intended. Carter did this even though Saddam was America's enemy between 1968 and 1980, and a Soviet client. Carter wasn't that bright Marion. This said, I respect his pro Palestinian stance.
What do you mean?
ReplyDeleteV, do you support the Iraqi Communist Party? The ICP has lead the resistance against Saddam since 1968 and played an important role in 2003. They were part of the Iraqi Governing Council and the Iraqi political process since 2003. The ICP is closely alligned with Allawi.
Personally I am not that pro Allawi. He strikes me as too close to Jordan, KSA, the Sunni Arab dictators and the CIA/State Department types inside the US.
Anand, you are a twit of epic proportions - do you realise how many parties there were of Communists in Iraq during the invasion? I am not talking about the "approved" party apparently now, am I? The first things the occupation soldiers did was attack Unions, tear down their halls and arrest them - torture them, kill them. That is not the ICP dimwit, anyione with affliiation of IWW
ReplyDeletehttp://www.uslaboragainstwar.org/article.php?id=19119
ReplyDeletehttp://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-113281688.html
etc etc etc
anand, why do I feel like I can't pick my own leaders here in the U.S.? Why am I basically only given two choices to pick from every time? Why does it always have to be either a Democratic or Republican candidate? Why does money always have to be only way to win an election?
ReplyDeleteInteresting.
ReplyDeleteRound -up.
Good question, guest.
ReplyDeleteWhere did you get that Carter supported Khomeini?
ReplyDeleteThanks for the links, Mara. You always have good ones.
ReplyDeleteActually that was me again Molly, sometimes I use a different computer and forget to add my name...
ReplyDeleteSome of the things that anand claims I have never ever heard before Molly, which makes me suspicious of so many of his claims...
ReplyDeleteOne one hand he acts as if he is an expert on the different Shia groups and leasders in the Middle East and their relationships more than the Shia themselves do, yet on the other hand he acts extremely ignorant when it comes to the Zionists and Israel's treatment of the Palestinians ...Why would I trust someone like this?
Sorry that was me again...
ReplyDelete<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 10pt; line-height: 125%; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;"><span style="">The surface of American society is covered with a layer of democratic paint, but from time to time one can see the old aristocratic colours breaking through. – Alexis de Tocqueville </span>
ReplyDeleteNow they just paint their faces
ReplyDelete