“The State of Israel must invent dangers, and to do this, it must adopt methods of provocation and revenge. And above all, let us hope for a new war with the Arab countries so that we may finally get rid of our troubles and acquire our space.”
Moshe Sharret, Israeli prime minister's diary (1954-56)
(Some contend that it's Moshe Dayan's. Sharret was merely quoting. Either way it's eloquent!)
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"On October 11th, 1953, the foreign minister and would-be premier, Moshe Sharrett, noted in his diary that he had been to see Ben Zvi, the president of the state:
ReplyDeleteBen Zvi raised as usual some inspired questions ... such as do we have a chance to occupy the Sinai and how wonderful it would be if the Egyptians started an offensive which we could defeat and follow with an invasion of that desert. He was very disappointed when I told him that the Egyptians show no tendency to facilitate us in this occupation task through a provocative challenge on their side. (11 October 1953, 27)"
http://chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/essays/rokach.html
vza
ReplyDeleteYou posted this quote out of the blue and it's supposed to prove something that I may have missed. What is your understanding here:
Sayyid Qutb:
Those who say that Islamic jihad was merely for the defense of the "homeland of Islam" diminish the greatness of the Islamic way of life. ...This is not the Islamic point of view, and ...it is the creation of the modern age and is completely alien to Islamic consciousness.
"Paving the Way," Milestones (1955)
First, I do not take any translation for granted. I'd look for it in texto.
ReplyDeleteSecond. Who translated this quote? Memri taught me to be extremely vigilant
Third. Something in this paragraph is missing (between and...and it is)!! Why is it missing? It gives the whole structure a weird connotation and doesn't really make sense.
<span>You see vza, I had a look at the source and no more information about this text is provided. Why? What are we to conclude from it I don't get..TAhe whole thing is very fishy if you ask me.</span>
BTW, I'm, no fan of Sayed Qutb, the Godfather of the Muslim brotherhood that I loathe, but fair should be fair!
<span><span><span>."it is the creation of the modern age and is completely alien to Islamic consciousness."</span>
ReplyDeleteWhat does 'it' refer to in your opinion? Jihad? If it is why is it followed by 'is completely alien'? Doesn't make sense! I believe 'it' simply refers to the 'modern interpretation' of the word jihad as <span>merely for the defense of the "homeland of Islam</span>.
But what is Qutb's understanding of the word jihad (which is not alien to Islamic consciousness). Why is it missing from the quote?
I'm smelling a rat.</span></span>
page 64 Paving the Way Milestones 1955 by Sayd Qutb
ReplyDelete...and consider it less important than their "homeland" are the missing words.
I believe Qutb is saying all those Muslims who claim Jihad is just for defensive purposes are wrong and that is a modern interpretation of Jihad which is not true.(according to him)
Qutb believed in the supremacy of God on this earth. Unfortunately, he believed that could only be achieved under Islam.
ReplyDeleteI have always found him a repugnant creature but I respect him for one thing. He admitted openly and without ambiguity what his goals were. There are followers of the Muslim Brotherhood right here in the United States and they are in some cases, prominent Muslim organizations and societies who hide their real intent and they play the little game of appearing to go along with the democratic principles and the U.S. way of life. You have them in Australia, too and all over Europe.
Sorry, here is the link to the book:
ReplyDeletehttp://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache:xQ-lknD5JpEJ:majalla.org/books/2005/qutb-nilestone.pdf+Those+who+say+that+Islamic+jihad+was+merely+for+the+defense+of+the+%22homeland+of+Islam%22+diminish+the+greatness+of+the+Islamic+way+of+life.+...This+is+not+the+Islamic+point+of+view,+and+...it+is+the+creation+of+the+modern+age+and+is+completely+alien+to+Islam&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESj9u0OIWdEJwVEdvNp_NAs9igTCLsKT98EP1Bw2urz416fPQIYYJV1QHbEsiBEvqz7TW3G4oj2QIy0cBngF7jV0e01YztwHDSxHB2j_P99fC5KiGjtVU9bRSC-3cpLwP3gEqWwc&sig=AFQjCNGWDXv8L6Ntd1sE2WbUdVIrqq0CPw
<span>My original source was merely a site for quotations on all topics pertaining to religion and philosophy. Nothing sinister, there! </span>
ReplyDelete<span>The question you always miss with you're attempts at "balance" vza, quoting these "ominous" quotes of Islam, is this - WHO HAS THE POWER? If you do not address this question you will always miss what is a present and true danger to you're "beloved" country.
ReplyDeleteTwo truths are ascertained by asking the above question - who is the most dangerous and can carry out the "threats," and what is the current condition? The answer is painfully clear - the power to act lies in the hands of the West (lead by the USA) and its client state Israel. What is the reality (current condition)? The "Arab" nations are subjugated and have no power to pose a clear and certain threat to the West and its brutal client nation (Israel). The other side to the current reality is that the West (lead by the USA currently) and its client state Israel currently attack, destroy, kill millions of people, currently occupy, and are involved in the process of exploiting the natural and human resources of the proposed "Islamic threat."
So vza, you're claim to "balance," by you're quotes and emphasis, in this current reality becomes nothing but clear bullshit. In fact, it becomes nothing but propaganda of the worst sort, dressed u in the garb of "balance." It becomes nothing but the continuous bashing of the victim. Period</span>
Here we go with your cute propaganda bit again. Please do not make me laugh. All you ever spew out is the predictable propaganda talking points of the usual self-congratulatory suspects and of course,.... youtube videos. Soooooo cool.
ReplyDelete"<span style="">WHO HAS THE POWER?<span style="">" Yes V, ask yourself that question. I know this is painful for you as an American to admit, but America isn't as powerful as you think. Humble thyself, know thyself. This is the beginning of wisdom. You and your people (our people) aren't that powerful and important. We Americans need to learn humility, to learn that there are many other great powers in the world besides ourselves and that many others might even exceed us in specific areas.</span></span>
ReplyDeleteWe Americans V (we are both Americans) only represent about one fifth of global income and our share is shrinking. We own a smaller share of global wealth than we do of income, because we love to borrow from foreigners.
V, do you have any idea how often Chinese and Indians laugh at American delusions of American grandeur?
V, the world is changing. New powers are reasserting themselves; ancient civilizations far more sophisticated, advanced, and powerful than you can imagine.
Read this story about how China just announced it is offering Africa another $10 billion in low interest loans:
<span style="font-family: Tahoma; white-space: pre;">http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Chinese-premier-pledges-funds-apf-650844391.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=1&asset=&ccode=</span>
Why is China doing this? Because she realizes that Africans view her as a great global superpower that greatly affects their daily lives. Africans are starting to blame Chinese for their internal problems, much the way they blame other foreigners. China is going to be giving away hundreds of billions of dollars to improve their global image.
India will soon have to do something similar in Africa and other parts of the world.
Personally, I think this is great for America. The rise of other great powers benefits America. Americans became richer when Brazilians, Indonesians and Chinese become richer and visa versa.
No answer vza (and no youtube either)
ReplyDeleteNice spiel anan, except it does not address the issue I proposed nor the context, sorry :)
ReplyDeleteV, implicit in many of your comments is the insulting condescending supposition that other countries and groups don't matter and don't have power. You also subtly imply that America is better than everyone and controls everything; which is equally stupid.
ReplyDeleteYou have no idea how insulting it is to tell other people that they have no power and can't do things as good or better than you can.
Good.
ReplyDeleteNow as I said before anan, it does not approach the subject or context of what I said, therefore you're further reponse is nothing but a continuation of deflective bullshit.
ReplyDeleteI suppose vza feels strange without a video, how about one that hits the subject right between the eyes -
ReplyDeletehttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2798679275960015727&ei=EBL3SpybEqfEqgKK-pXeBA&q=power+of+nightmares&hl=en#
Oh and one other thing anan, I am not responsible for you're inferiority complex.
ReplyDeleteOh too funny! You cannot resist, can you!
ReplyDelete"<span style="">The question you always miss with you're attempts at "balance" vza, quoting these "ominous" quotes of Islam, is this - WHO HAS THE POWER? If you do not address this question you will always miss what is a present and true danger to you're "beloved" country. </span>
ReplyDelete<span style="">
</span>
<span style="">Two truths are ascertained by asking the above question - who is the most dangerous and can carry out the "threats," and what is the current condition? The answer is painfully clear - the power to act lies in the hands of the West (lead by the USA) and its client state Israel. What is the reality (current condition)? The "Arab" nations are subjugated and have no power to pose a clear and certain threat to the West and its brutal client nation (Israel).</span>"
You implied that Arabs lack power and agency.
V, please please learn the difference between your and you're. Your is the possessive. You're means you are. Otherwise, spot on.
ReplyDelete<span><span><span>vza</span>
ReplyDeleteI was questioning the motives of those who put up this a truncated quote. When we fill in the missing sentence it still doesn't say what Qutb's interpretaion or understanding of the word is. What value is there in a quote where one starts saying that something isn't this and it isn't that either but doesn't say what it is?
So here is the quote now that I filled in the missing words.
<span>Those who say that Islamic jihad was merely for the defense of the "homeland of Islam" diminish the greatness of the Islamic way of life. This is not the Islamic point of view, </span><span>and consider it less important than their "homeland"</span><span>...it is the creation of the modern age and is completely alien to Islamic consciousness. </span>
Ok, but what is it then?</span></span>
My knowledge of Qutb is limited to some general notions and I was never interested neither in his person nor in his teachings or books. He inspired the MB and that's enough to put me off forever. But from his belief in god's supremacy over his creation<span>and and that it could only be achieved under Islam is not much different from what the other two monotheistic religions profess. It's really the same crap </span>
ReplyDelete<span>You implied that Arabs lack power and agency.</span>
ReplyDelete----------
They do not?
News to me...Huge parts of their lands are occupied and are unable to get them back. Very powerful indeed.
<span>Perhaps you would have to read before the quote and after....perhaps the whole chapter? </span>
ReplyDelete<span>My interpretation is that he believes that some were watering down the meaning of jihad and limiting it to being used only for defensive means, Obviously, Qutb believed otherwise. In effect, he believed jihad for the establishment of God's supremacy was okay. To his credit, he is scrupulous in saying there would be no forcing of conversion once they took over, but take over was definitely on his agenda.
</span>
<span>page 64 Paving the Way Milestones 1955 by Sayd Qutb
</span>
Yes, perhaps it is the same crap, but adherents of Qutb's beliefs bring a little twist to the goal, you might say. Jihad.
ReplyDeleteAs far as questioning the motives, go to the site. I really do not see anything sinister there. Do you think Zionists control the site? Perhaps I am missing something?
ReplyDeleteI found the author of the site. He is an atheist.
ReplyDeletehttp://atheism.about.com/bio/Austin-Cline-5577.htm
We we gotta get dem jihadis - yuk yuk
ReplyDeleteWill you post this, Tgia?
ReplyDelete“So many times I talked with him,” said Akhter, a community leader who is sort of like a mosque gadfly, challenging congregants to reject literal, rigid interpretations of Islam. “I was trying to modernize him. I tried my best. He used to hate America as a whole. He was more anti-American than American.”
Despite all the conversations, Akther said, “I couldn’t get through to him. He was a typical fundamentalist Muslim.”
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-11-07/major-hasans-hidden-militancy/full/
'I honestly have no pity for them'
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npAvM-VWwhc
TGIA -- thanks for the tip about Firefox. What a difference!
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome Ann. You'll never look back again.
ReplyDeleteYes, Firefox is a great tool, incredibly fast, almost none of the security risks like you find with explorer, good stuff. It is not so much a corporate creation as a work among many people (firefox).
ReplyDeleteYes vza. It's done. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteI can't bear using IE..It feels like I'm doing something unethical. And in a way it is...
ReplyDeleteThank you.
ReplyDelete