Tuesday, November 17, 2009
Israel says would have to respond by annexation to any unilateral move
JERUSALEM, Nov 16 (Reuters) - Israel warned the Palestinians on Monday that declaring a state without concluding a peace agreement would lead to Israeli counter-measures that could include annexation of more of the occupied West Bank
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<span style="">https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=32302271&postID=5242970737852876969</span>
ReplyDelete"<span style="">You know when I grew up in the former Soviet Union, they were teaching us in schools their scientific communism, a crappy and unsupported by any evidence ideology. But at least I could understand why this shit was there, it was part of the system. When I moved to the West, I discovered that all of it is living by a no less crappy ideology that I would call scientific liberalism. </span>
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Unlike scientific Communism, scientific liberalism does not even have a clear core concept or vision. It's just a collection of vague romantic ideas, some of which are extremely dangerous and self destructive.
One of these is this diversity nonsense. Throughout my whole life I have never been presented one single shred of evidence that diversity is good for anything, that it has any value of itself. The only reason that I have not demolished completely all of Anand's argumentation is because I was short on time. If I wish I would have left no stone standing.
All I know about diversity is that it's bad. I can easily demonstrate that even in prospering diverse societies, their success has nothing to do with diversity as such but with other things such as a high quality of immigrations these societies are attracting which compensate for the inevitable downsides of diversity. Diversity as such can be only bad. Smart government will never encourage diversity, it will only seek to eliminate it completely.
Ask the same IraqMojo how they are enjoying their Sunni Shia Kurdish diversity. Or those Lebanese I know, of who I think most have already left the country. Ask them how they enjoy their Sunni Shia Christian diversity. They will gladly explain this to you. Or any Westerner living in those conglomerates of disintegrated minorities into which many big European cities have degenerated.
At the best diversity is harmful and destroys social capital and national cohesion as demonstrated by a research I am quoting somewhere in the middle of this post. At the worst it destroys societies completely through ethnic conflicts and civil wars.
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<span style="">So you have here something that has no positive sides at all and can be dangerous to the extreme. How the academy succeeded to make the whole world worship this new religion, is simply beyond me. </span>"
Why don't Israelis appreciate how much value Palestinians and other diverse peoples bring? Why don't they understand how extensively Israel benefits from its Palestinians Israeli citizen minority, or how a prosperous Palestine living next to Israel would benefit Israel economically and culturally?
ReplyDeleteIs it mostly Russian Israelis who think this way?
ReplyDelete"<span style="">Let me take another Anand's example - Malasia and make a few imaginary experiments on it. Say, I destroy all of its diversity by leaving only Chinese there. Now honestly, do you think such a state would look more like Indonesia or it would be more like the predominantly Chinese Singapore?</span>
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Or say I reconfigure Malasia's ethnic composition by replacing all Chinese with Turks and Arabs. Do you believe that such a state will be just as successful as the real Malasia is?
So what diversity has to do with all this? What's really important there - diversity or the Chinese factor?
Clearly, the most spectacular post ww2 economic miracles in the third world were staged in monoethnic countries, some of which, like Japan and South Korea, are so intensely monoethnic in their mentality that they can qualify to be called cultures of racism.
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<span style="">So where does this diversity nonsense come from? On the basis of what evidence? On the basis of what evidence people come to argue for binational states with full knowledge that these are so likely to end in civil wars and slaughters? What it has to do with black panthers and KKK?</span>"
I think that even a two state solution should include many israelis and Palestinians who have dual citizenship. Israel should still have many Palestinians Israeli citizens. Palestine should still have many Jewish Palestinian citizens.
Unfortunately, this vision appears unpopular with both Israelis at that blog, and among the good people at this blog.
If my suggested end state solution won't work, than what will? How to remind Israelis and Palestinians that they are both the children of Abraham and need to treat each other as family?
I think the Palestinians need to forgive Israelis for all of Israel's mistakes since 1948 and 1967. But for this to happen, Israelis need to recognize Palestinians as family; which appears to be far from the case now.
This is another example they give for why a two state solution and full separation might be better:
ReplyDelete<span style="">"And you know what? The first experiment in my example was done in real life. I just forgot about it. Singapore and Malasia used to be one country. They split shortly after the ww2. Singapore became a monoethnic state while Malasia was left to celebrate its diversity. And where is Singapore these days and where is Malasia? You can't even compare between them. So here you have such an experiment done in real life with the outcome so obvious that it simply leaves no place for more debate."</span>
I don't think this idea is practical for Israel/Palestine. 23% of Israeli citizens are Palestinians, and they want to stay Israeli I think. In addition, many diaspora Palestinians want to return to Israel proper rather than to a Palestinians state.
Therefore, even if there was a two state solution, about 30% of all Israeli citizens would be Palestinians.
My hope is that perhaps a half million or a million Palestinian citizens would be dual citizens of Israel (including Jews and Israeli Arabs.) I imagine that the Palestinians economy would greatly benefit from Israelis being able to freely travel to and do business in Palestine.
How would the Palestinian economy be able to thrive without a free trade, free investment, free work permit, free travel agreement with Israel? The Israelis, because of all their prior abuses of Palestinians, owe the Palestinians at least this much.
<span><span>Anan..
ReplyDeleteYou're such a disarmingly naive person..Did you stop for a second and ask yourself why the blog that you've been visting and reporting from is called 'The Happy Arab News Service" instead of "The Happy Israeli News Service" when the blogger says he's an Israeli JEW? Why another poster's (an Israeli Jew) moniker wants to sound Arabic ,Abu Sa'ar, when in fact it's not? ..Why are all those gentlemen are pretending to be Arabs? Doesn't that raise any suspicions in your mind about their honesty and sincerity? Are you unable to detect the deceptive, sneaky, sleazy ways? What's wrong with you?</span></span>
Another thing..Are you unable to "read" the people you're arguing with and clearly see that they're a far right supremacist and racist Russian Israeli "Jews"? Is that so hard to guess? Is not not plain to you that their arguments for national exclusivity and purity are tell tale signs of a very fishy inclination? Doesn't that ring a bell between your ears?
ReplyDelete<span><span>Why don't Israelis appreciate how much value Palestinians and other diverse peoples bring? </span></span>
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I know why but shouldn't you be addressing this question to them?..... Hello!!!
<span><span>Is it mostly Russian Israelis who think this way? </span>
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Ihave an idea for you.. Ask THEM!
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I think they should unilaterally declare a Palestinian state, than with the swift recognition of the European bodies kick the USA out of the process because it is totally compromised. If Israel wishes to withhold taxes the Palestinians should declare no taxation without true representation - dismantle the Authority and the people should begin the building of the institutions of state. That there should be a moratorium on the normal fashion of declaration and development because of the destruction brought upon the Palestinians by the Israelis, and the false "peace negotiation process."
ReplyDeletev, the EU, Britain, Netherlands, Germany and Italy might be more pro Israeli than America.
ReplyDeleteYou need to break free of your Eurocentric and Western centric mindset. Think about how China, India, Japan and South Korea would respond.
Who dismantles the authority V? How is it dismantled? How do people begin building the institutions of a state?
You need practical ideas.