Friday, May 1, 2009

Church-goers more likely to support torture

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The more often Americans go to church, the more likely they are to support the torture of suspected terrorists, according to a new survey.

White evangelical Protestants were the religious group most likely to say torture is often or sometimes justified -- more than six in 10 supported it. People unaffiliated with any religious organization were least likely to back it. Only four in 10 of them did.

22 comments:

  1. Molly what about atheists?

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  2. They didn't bother to ask us. :(   Unaffiliated is the closest they got.  

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  3. What do you think will be the percentages of atheists supporting torture high or low?

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  4. We definitely support it less than the general public. 

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  5. Alhamdulliah ana mulhidah. :)

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  6. Well as far as my understanding of Islam goes, torture is Haram and as a former non-practicing Christian I find it hard to believe that Jesus would condone such a thing or that true Christianity does.
     
    I think that when people become extremist in their thinking  through fears, prejudices, etc.,  whether they are of faith or not, they will often look for and find justification for the unjustifiable....

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  7. "...According to the latest Gallup Poll, a bare majority (51%) of Americans now favor some kind of major investigation "into the use of harsh interrogation techniques on terrorism suspects during the Bush administration." On the other hand, 55% "still believe in retrospect that the use of the interrogation techniques was justified." Of course, who knows what those percentages might have been if Gallup's pollsters, in their questions, had used the word "torture," rather than -- like most of the mainstream -- skittering away from it in favor of a variation on the chosen phrase of the Bush administration, "enhanced interrogation techniques."..."
     
    Kiss the Era of Human Rights Goodbye
     
    What Bush Willed to Obama and the World
    By Karen J. Greenberg
     
    EXCERPT:
     
    "...
    So let's be utterly clear: The policies of the Bush administration were not just horrific in themselves or to others, they may also have brought to an end the human rights movement as we know it.
    One need only glance at the recently released Justice Department memos, which have caused such a media storm of late, for the story of what has happened to human rights in American hands to become clearer. It is not just, as New York Times columnist Frank Rich recently wrote, that "our government methodically authorized torture and lied about it." No less important, though hardly commented upon, is this fact: the United States succumbed to the exact patterns of abusive state action that the human rights movement was created to outlaw forever. What the Bush administration pursued, after all, was a policy of state-sponsored, legally codified dehumanization designed to torture (and in some cases destroy) individuals, which was to be systematically and bureaucratically implemented in the name of the greater good of the country, however defined....:
     
    http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175066/karen_greenberg_human_rights_in_the_dust

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  8. To think that this is not the result of mixed messages from the major media is a significant error. this was pushed by the ruling elite, it was enshrined in law by them, and supported by the government structure. They bear full responsibility for it, it is an attestation to the totally illegitimate nature of the government, which does not reflect the people but a moneyed elite.  
       
    Torture has always been used to get the confession that the PERPETRATOR wants, not the truth. It is meant to push the agenda of any tyrant, tyranny and torture are bedfellows. This is the historic use of torture, and any historians or authority figures who do not say such are consummate liars. They need to be removed as far as possible from the seat of power, they need to feel the fullest extent of the law.

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  9. HEY, HEY, USA, HOW MANY KIDS DID YOU KILL TODAY? ANSWER: 1000 
    "Barack Hussein Obama (BHO) has just passed the 100 day mark of his presidency. Decent anti-racist humanitarians can ask the question: how many people have died avoidably in the Occupied Territories of the American Empire under President Obama? The answer: 180,000 including 113,000 under-5 year old infants; for details read on."
     
    http://bellaciao.org/en/spip.php?article18750

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  10. thankgodimatheistMay 1, 2009 at 8:33 PM

    Hey, that me in Arabic!
    .

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  11. I do not believe the Prophet of Islam ordered such vza. I don't consider these hadtihs to be authentic...

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  12. thankgodimatheistMay 1, 2009 at 11:34 PM

    Many if not most Ahadith are fake, vza. There's a book in which one can find all the fake ones. I've heard of tyhis book:
    Fake Pearls
    A collection of fabricated prophetic sayings.
    By Sayyed Iqbal Zaheer

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  13. thankgodimatheistMay 1, 2009 at 11:45 PM

    vza
    Lets try to apply some common sense here. If the prophet had ordered this method of execution wouldn'tit be included in some Sharia law or recommendation of other nature? Personally I never heard anyone calling for the tearing apart of a woman using two camels(!!)

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  14. Look VZA, there were thousands of false hadiths written after the Prophet of Islam (pbuh) died. And there is a method  in which Shia scholars use to decide if a hadith is authentic or not.
     
    There may be some Muslims who believe all of these Hadiths recorded are authentic but I have  a hard time believing that  most of them do. I assume Sunni Muslims have there own methods to decide if they are authentic or not.
     
    According to my knowledge, the Prophet Muhammed gave clear instructions, based on the teachings of the Holy Qur'an, on how Muslims should justly behave during battles and how they should treat their captured enemy soldiers and their women and children.
     
     According to the Holy Qur'an,  Muslims are not to become the oppressors:
     
    "And fight in the Way of Allah those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allah likes not the transgresssors. 2:190
     
     
     
    We Shia believe that Imam Ali, the cousin and son in law of the Prophet,  was the best example of how one should conduct himself during and after battle...

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  15. It isn't my intention to belittle the concern over torture.  However, I find the whole debate somewhat skewed and pointless.  As someone said recently...
     
    "At 19, I was given a rifle and ordered to kill for my country against all my beliefs and three years later saw an American president command the only use of nuclear weapons in history to slaughter hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children ..."
     
    And then there was Viet Nam...
    http://www.youtube.com/v/dIhGYu5Uc08

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  16. And let me just add that the local wingnuts will flock around and justify this carnage by saying that the dominos would have fallen all the way to the front doorstep of the United States if they hadn't inflicted hi-tech death and destruction on poor defenseless rice farmers.  RUBBISH!  That absolutely no different from the argument that Stalin employed to the effect that the Revolution would have been defeated hadn't countless thousands been shipped off to the GULAGs!  I don't give a flying damn what anybody says.  They are one and the same.  Dictators and Democrats!  There is no difference.  The last idiot to use the excuse for slaughter was George W. Bush in his invasion of Iraq.  What was the excuse?  WMD?  Caliphate?  When all else failed, invented the excuse that he invaded to bring Democracy??  Where is Iraq today??  Is Maliki a democrat?  Answer me that, wingnuts!  A curse on all your houses!  The Israelis are now planning to use the same straw man to justify bombing Iran.  You all will justify these things until they are used against you, which (the way this world is heading) no doubt will happen.

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  17. "According to my knowledge, the Prophet Muhammed gave clear instructions, based on the teachings of the Holy Qur'an, on how Muslims should justly behave during battles and how they should treat their captured enemy soldiers and their women and children.  
    " (Marion)
     
    Oh I am so, so tired of this ridiculous excuse.  As if finding a quote from the Quran that supposedly prohibits a behavior makes it impossible for muslims to actually commit the behavior.  
     
    Christians are supposd to abide by the Ten Commandments of course but that doesnt mean they dont ever break them.  Likewise, finding a passage in the quaran that addresses a subject can have little or NO bearing on how people actually conduct themselves.
     
    This also means that Christians are NOT necessarily moral because the Ten Commandments are in the bible.  People behave how they behave and how a religious document says they should live may have little or nothing to do with it, no matter what affiliation they might claim.

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  18. But this discussion Fleming is not about whether some Muslims go against the teachings of the prophet, it is about whether Mohammad ordered torture or not and whether the hadiths are real or not.

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  19. Is this genuine? lolol
     
    If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.   (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
     
    <span style="color: black;">The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath.  He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies!  The LORD is slow to get angry, but his power is great, and he never lets the guilty go unpunished.  He displays his power in the whirlwind and the storm.  The billowing clouds are the dust beneath his feet.  At his command the oceans and rivers dry up, the lush pastures of Bashan and Carmel fade, and the green forests of Lebanon wilt.  In his presence the mountains quake, and the hills melt away; the earth trembles, and its people are destroyed.  Who can stand before his fierce anger?  Who can survive his burning fury?  His rage blazes forth like fire, and the mountains crumble to dust in his presence.  The LORD is good.  When trouble comes, he is a strong refuge.  And he knows everyone who trusts in him.  But he sweeps away his enemies in an overwhelming flood.  He pursues his foes into the darkness of night.   </span><span style="color: black;">(Nahum 1:2-8 NLT)</span>
     
    <span style="color: black;">Then, with Micah's idols and his priest, the men of Dan came to the town of Laish, whose people were peaceful and secure.  They attacked and killed all the people and burned the town to the ground.  There was no one to rescue the residents of the town, for they lived a great distance from Sidon and had no allies nearby.  This happened in the valley near Beth-rehob.Then the people of the tribe of Dan rebuilt the town and lived there.  They renamed the town Dan after their ancestor, Israel's son, but it had originally been called Laish.   </span> <span style="color: black;">(Judges 18:27-29 NLT)   </span>
    <p> <span style="color: black;">(Note that God approves of this slaughter in verse 6.)</span>
    <p> 
    <span style="color: black;">"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge!  Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD.  "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction".   </span><span style="color: black;">(Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)</span>
     
    etc., etc., etc. Canonized no less...lol

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  20. <p><span style="color: black; font-weight: 700;">Kill Everyone in 7 Nations</span>
    <p><span style="color: black;"> </span>
    <p><span style="color: black;">    When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are about to enter and occupy, he will clear away many nations ahead of you: the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites. These seven nations are all more powerful than you.  When the LORD your God hands these nations over to you and you conquer them, you must completely destroy them.  Make no treaties with them and show them no mercy.  Do not intermarry with them, and don't let your daughters and sons marry their sons and daughters.  They will lead your young people away from me to worship other gods.  Then the anger of the LORD will burn against you, and he will destroy you.   </span><span style="color: black;"> (Deuteronomy 7:1-4 NLT)</span>
    <p> 
    <p>HOW TO JUSTIFY A GENCODE<p> 
    <p>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9m7m-n8YKA
    <p> 
    AMERICA'S IMPERIAL CHURCH OF EMPIRE 
    http://notinhisname.blogdrive.com/archive/cm-03_cy-2007_m-03_d-20_y-2007_o-0.html
     
    The savior it (US Christianity) claims, was himself the victim of imperialism (instrumentally) and he supposedly stands in the midst of those who claim his name, but they support in fact the very spirit of imperialism that persecuted their savior. That which began in direct contradistinction to all despotic power outside of Christ's reign, throughout history has sided with the powers that have afflicted mankind.  However, they  (Fundamentalist Christians) materially support murderously rapacious Empire!

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  21. thankgodimatheistMay 2, 2009 at 3:31 PM

    Of course I did! That's why I was questioning the camels thing because I never heard of it. I doubt it's used anywhere when it should if the story was genuine because, again, those wackos are always trying to apply the prophet's teachings one way or another. How come they missed this one? Either way, look this is atrocious beyond belief. It turns my stomach upside down on this lovely Sunday morning down under! I'm so tired of religion and its teachings whether good or bad I don't give a crap anymore. I just want this absurdity to become clear and evident to everyone. So tiring, the whole stuff!
    .

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