Friday, November 6, 2009

Comment on Fort Hood shooting. To put aside the people he killed for a moment, I wish this guy had thought about his fellow Muslims and the backlash against them for a moment before he pulled the trigger.
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135 comments:

  1. JoeNovember 6, 2009 at 3:21 PM

    I guess we can take a public relations angle on this story-I bet psychiatrists are worrying more about how this reflects on their profession than thinking about the victims(The shooter is a psychiatrist.). There has already been another workplace shooting already-this one in Florida-so the Fort Hood shooting will fade from public consciousness pretty soon.

    There are some real issues that this shooting brings out. First of all, what the fuck is going on in our military? This guy was a Major and he was in the military for ten years. How did he get so far without anyone noticing anything was wrong with him, He apparently was clearly cracking up in the last few months, but he was about to be shipped off to Iraq anyway.

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  2. flemingNovember 6, 2009 at 3:37 PM

    One nutbagger does not a "real issue" make.  There are millions of people in our armed forces.  Statistics say there are lots of nutters. 

    He is still alive.  Now it will be very interesting to hear his "motivations".  Being called to do your duty is not an excuse.  Even if it bothered him he could have simply refused to go.  Might have been charged or imprisoned, but certainly a better decision than the one he made. 

    Ft Hood was a major deal and will not fade quickly.  If the shooter relates it to Palestine, well, dont look for public sympathy or support here in the US.  We already know our enemies will cheer him.

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  3. vzaNovember 6, 2009 at 4:20 PM

    <span>A piece on NPR today certainly leaves me with the impression that he exhibited warning signs. This is a tragedy that did not have to happen. Political Correctness probably saved this guy from being put out and/or investigated time and time again.
     
    ZWERDLING: Earlier today, I spoke to a psychiatrist who worked very closely with Hasan and knows him very well. And he said, you know, from the beginning -and Hasan was there for four years - the medical staff was very worried about this guy. He said the first thing is he's cold, unfriendly. At least that's who he came off. He did not do a good job as a psychiatrist in training, was repeatedly warned, you better shape up, or, you know, you're going to be in trouble. Did badly in his classes, seemed disinterested. But second of all - and this is, perhaps, you know, more relevant. The psychiatrist says that he was very proud and upfront about being Muslim. And psychiatrist hastened to say, and nobody minded that. But he seemed almost belligerent about being Muslim, and he gave a lecture one day that really freaked a lot of doctors out.  
    They have grand rounds, right? They, you know, dozens of medical staff come into an auditorium, and somebody stands at the podium at the front and gives a lecture about some academic issue, you know, what drugs to prescribe for what condition. But instead of that, he - Hasan apparently gave a long lecture on the Koran and talked about how if you don't believe, you are condemned to hell. Your head is cut off. You're set on fire. Burning oil is burned down your throat.  
    And I said to the psychiatrist, but this cold be a very interesting informational session, right? Where he's educating everybody about the Koran. He said but what disturbed everybody was that Hasan seemed to believe these things. And actually, a Muslim in the audience, a psychiatrist, raised his hand and said, excuse me. But I'm a Muslim and I do not believe these things in the Koran, and then I don't believe what you say the Koran says. And then Hasan didn't say, well, I'm just giving you one point of view. He basically just stared the guy down.  
     
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120162816</span>

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  4. thankgodimatheistNovember 6, 2009 at 5:30 PM

    I wish this guy had thought about his fellow Muslims and the backlash against them for a moment before he pulled the trigger.
    --------
    Molly, if he had done that (thought of the backlash) it would have meant he's reasonable and sensible but obviously he wasn't by any means..This guy is obviously mentally ill.

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  5. thankgodimatheistNovember 6, 2009 at 6:01 PM

    Besides, all religious fundamentalists are mentally ill.

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  6. ananNovember 6, 2009 at 6:27 PM

    Molly,  what he did was completely messed up period for many reasons. What an idiot.

    "<span style="">Besides, all religious fundamentalists are mentally ill.<span style="">" I think that faith is a good thing and a generally positive influence on human affairs.</span></span>

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  7. r.s.November 6, 2009 at 7:22 PM

    Note that the US government and military are already throwing misinformation and speculation to defame Hasan and to draw attention away from the huge psychological costs of their wars.

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  8. ananNovember 6, 2009 at 7:28 PM

    Proof? The guy was a creep, period. This is the biggest disaster on a US military base inside the US since the 1780s.

    This is one of the worst terrorist attacks in US history.

    Keep in mind that this was one of their own, with 20 years service, a Major in the US Army. What is bad is that he is a Palestinian American, and this could fuel anti Palestinian anger.

    r.s. the Iraq war is caused psychological costs for the Iraqi Army soldiers and Iraqi Police officers. Should they stop fighting and defending their country because of it? I don't understand your point.

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  9. AnnNovember 6, 2009 at 7:34 PM

    Forget about his religion, profession or mental status, or even this guy as an individual.  If it hadn't been him, it would have been someone else.  BECAUSE -- what goes around comes around.  It was blowback.

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  10. flemingNovember 6, 2009 at 7:34 PM

     <span style="color: #476cb8;"><span style="cursor: pointer;">r.s.</span><span style="display: none;"></span><img src="http://cf.js-kit.com/images/icon10-external-url.png"/></span>
    <span>Note that the US government and military are already throwing misinformation and speculation to defame Hasan and to draw attention away from the huge psychological costs of their wars.</span>
    <span></span>
    <span>HAHAHAHAH  Classic.  Absolutely classic.  No one but uber liberals and america-haters spew this garbage.  Defame him???  You mean the guy who shot and kiilled at least 13 unarmed people?  Oh yes, the PR machine is really going over time destroying his upstanding reputation and good name!  LOL </span>
    <span></span>
    <span>No one.  And I mean no in the US is going to take the side of this guy.  I am VERY happy he is still alive.  Mr "Allah akbar"  (or whatever) should be a treasure trove of info.  None of it will help his cause.  NONE OF IT.</span>

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  11. flemingNovember 6, 2009 at 7:36 PM

    Blowback Annie?  Really?  Is that what you think? 

    You aint see real blowback, hon.  When all that is left of Mecca is a glassy sheen, then you will know the meaning of blowback.  Book it. 

    Allah Akbhar! LOL LOL LOL LOL

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  12. AnnNovember 6, 2009 at 7:49 PM

    LOL yourself.  You called me Annie - and I don't even know you!

    It's dialectics, it's cause and effect.  I'm not saying it's good, violence begets more violence and on and on. 

    You really don't see this?  Am I alone on this, people?

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  13. vzaNovember 6, 2009 at 7:49 PM

    Revolting.

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  14. AnnNovember 6, 2009 at 7:52 PM

    Hey.  Why don't you start your own website?  So we can come over there and post comments and take up space, like you do here.

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  15. flemingNovember 6, 2009 at 7:54 PM

    Shoot Annie-wanny, its just a little ole term of endearment.  You know we sourthern boys are nothing if not gentlemen. HAHAHA

    Yea no doubt, as soon as the USA conducts itself exactly as the worldwide muslim community demands, we can all be friends.  Sure........

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  16. vzaNovember 6, 2009 at 7:55 PM

    <span>Defame Hasan? How are they defaming Hasan? 
    Imagine, all of those people dead and you are worried about the alleged defamation of the killer?</span>

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  17. flemingNovember 6, 2009 at 7:56 PM

    Ill start my own website as soon as you get the F out of my beloved country.  Anytime.

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  18. AnnNovember 6, 2009 at 8:41 PM

    I can't get to page 2 of comments on this post.  In fact I have a lot of problems navigating through this website.  I'm not that savvy a computer user but I suspect it's not my computer.

    So vza says my comment was revolting and fleming wants to push the nuclear button.  Maybe I shouldn't be but I am a bit surprised.  I guess the appropriate thing to do is preface my comments by saying, what a tragedy for the people involved -- I do mean it.

    BUT, do we really think that our country can spread chaos and destruction around the world and it will NEVER come to visit us here?

    Go ahead y'all, tell me I'm the crazy one.

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  19. vNovember 6, 2009 at 8:43 PM

    Oh fuck you are you're "beloved country" fleming,  it is rapidly turning into a leaking cesspool - that is because it has already become a cesspool with people of you're ilk.  It bears no resemblence at this point to a beloved country,  here is what is coming and it is not as reserved as blowback (this also shows why it is coming).  It is going to come from the inside,  forget about an external enemy -

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1T8xgHdMEM

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  20. ananNovember 6, 2009 at 8:51 PM

    Nicely put VZA. Hasan defamed himself. The US military has been careful not to talk about Hasan so far. To accuse the US military of defaming Hasan is insanely stupid; the sign of a sub 30 IQ. R.S. what planet do you spend most of your time on?

    Ann, what you are writing makes no sense. Is it too much to expect a 20 years service US Army Major not to mass murder Americans on American soil?

    Ann, there isn't a country on earth that doesn't greatly offend many people on a continual basis. That does not justify mass murdering their people.

    Ann, you disagree with the Iraqi Government and the Iraqi Army that is loyal to it. But you don't go to Iraq and mass murder Iraqis. Is it too much to expect everyone else to follow your example?

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  21. ananNovember 6, 2009 at 8:52 PM

    Ann, is there any country on earth that doesn't deserve massive continual blowback by your definition?

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  22. vNovember 6, 2009 at 8:55 PM

    Oh,  and just in case you think it is only going to happen here -

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg-GuTWX_6o

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  23. vNovember 6, 2009 at 9:06 PM

    Coming from inside oppressed communities that the beast thinks it silenced -

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6LFNCryryA&feature=player_embedded

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  24. vNovember 6, 2009 at 9:13 PM

    From place that have been bled by this country for over a hundred years -

    http://www.brownpride.com/bp_videos/video.asp?a=102

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  25. thankgodimatheistNovember 6, 2009 at 9:35 PM

    <span><span><span>Hey flaming jerk..I think Ann is right. Why not have your own blog and fuck off from here, ? You wouldn't have to worry about sitting in the shithole of the banned every time you go insanely hysterical and we wouldn't go to your site to annoy you. Sounds good to me. 
    </span></span></span>

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  26. vzaNovember 6, 2009 at 9:38 PM

    I know, I know. Just as the London Blitz was blowback for Churchill's unwillingness to surrender. What on earth was he thinking?

    The blowback theory does NOT apply in this case because this guy was born and raised in the United States, lived a comfortable life, CHOSE to enter the U.S. Army, and remained in the Army through all those years of "chaos and destruction". If he had been any kind of a MAN, he would have resigned long ago and gone to an Islamic country to serve his people. It is quite obvious, he did not see his fellow Americans as his people.

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  27. thankgodimatheistNovember 6, 2009 at 9:43 PM

    <span>I can't get to page 2 of comments on this post.  In fact I have a lot of problems navigating through this website.  I'm not that savvy a computer user but I suspect it's not my computer. </span>
    -----------
    I didn't hear any complaints about this yet, Ann. What type of problems do you have navigating the site?

    As for the cause and effect thing, I agree but some people become too sensitive after such events and do not want to hear about it..

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  28. r.s.November 6, 2009 at 9:47 PM

    "get the F out of my beloved country."

    Ann's a WASP like you fool

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  29. vzaNovember 6, 2009 at 9:48 PM

    Sayyid Qutb:

    Those who say that Islamic jihad was merely for the defense of the "homeland of Islam" diminish the greatness of the Islamic way of life. ...This is not the Islamic point of view, and ...it is the creation of the modern age and is completely alien to Islamic consciousness.
    "Paving the Way," Milestones (1955)

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  30. AnnNovember 6, 2009 at 9:57 PM

    In the last few days when I try to go to comments I get a box that opens up "Internet Explorer Script Error"... at the bottom is the question "do you want to continue running scripts on this page?" & it doesn't seem to matter whether I click Yes, No or try to close the box, it takes several clicks to move beyond it to comments.  So far this is the only website that occurs on.  Also it often looks like there are zero comments, and in fact going into comments reveals zero comments, even when there are in fact comments.

    But, I persevere!!

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  31. AnnNovember 6, 2009 at 9:59 PM

    You can call me Annie, any time!!

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  32. flemingNovember 7, 2009 at 2:04 AM

    Who cares rs.  Her seething hatred of what this country stands for is repulsive.  For that she needs to get the F out.  Do you think there are no "wasps" I loathe? She can take Nancy Peolosi and Barney Frank with her! LOL

    You all love to assume that I have this skin color obsession.  I dont.  Its about culture.  I dont care what color somone is.  Its all about their attitude. 

    Screams of "racist" at every presumed insult are just a lazy person's way of "arguing".

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  33. flemingNovember 7, 2009 at 2:11 AM

    Look here Ward C/V, I started holding my breath waiting for your internal revolution several years ago.  Since then I have turned blue millions of times!  Gosh man, get on with it!

    FYI: A stirring video combined with loud, jarring music is not an insurgency in the making.  It is a great way to sell songs at Itunes!!! LOL LOL

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  34. r.s.November 7, 2009 at 2:51 AM

    Forget about the shooters religion.

    http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2009/11/200911673727815898.html

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  35. flemingNovember 7, 2009 at 4:21 AM

    <span>Indeed rs.  Give the same advice to your pals. </span>

    PESHAWAR, PAKISTAN - When terrorists last week blew up the Mina Bazaar, a market for women and children, they detonated a car bomb so powerful it left more than 100 people dead and 15 missing in a nightmarish scene of scattered limbs, charred corpses and victims trapped alive under mounds of debris.
    <span></span>The bombing crossed a new line of callousness, uniting Peshawar in grief and fear and unleashing a tide of anger. But most of the outrage expressed by survivors, witnesses, religious leaders and other residents this week was not directed at Islamist extremist groups, whom the government has blamed for the attack, but at the countries many Pakistanis see as their true enemies: India, Israel and the United States.
    <span></span>In part, this reaction stems from a deep popular conviction that no Muslim could perpetrate such atrocities against other Muslims. The more egregious the attack, the stronger seems the tendency to deny a domestic cause and blame other, more remote culprits. Some religious and political groups are encouraging such responses, eager to whip up xenophobic sentiment for their own ends.

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  36. Jemmy HopeNovember 7, 2009 at 6:06 AM

    This bloke was too American for his own good. He got some firearms and murdered a lot of people. It happens all the time in the land of the free - an old American custom.
    Remember, folks, guns don't kill people, the NRA kills people.

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  37. flemingNovember 7, 2009 at 6:44 AM

    Get of guns and only the criminals will have them

    you can take my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hand

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  38. ananNovember 7, 2009 at 7:06 AM

    Talk about sub zero IQ. An incident like this has never happened since US independence in 1783.

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  39. JoeNovember 7, 2009 at 7:37 AM

    This guy should never see the outside of a prison again. Hopefully, that is stating th obvious. However, this is not an isolated incident. These mass murders happen all the time lately. There was one in Florida after the one at Fort Hood. These are very stressfull times in the USA and more and more people can't take it. Things are going to get worse if we don't address the real underlying issues that are causing people to crack up. In this case, there are two endless, absolutely pointless wars going on. This was one of the most spectacular results from all the damaged souls caused by these wars, but there is an alarming suicide rate and homeless rates among Iraq and Afghanistan vets.  And there will be a huge fallout from all the foreclosures and jobs lost. And it will take more than an inspirational trip to Thomas Edison's retirement home to fix all our problems.

    Also, don't expect much help from our institutions. This guy was a psychiatrist in the military. He was suppossed to prevent this type of thing. It really points to a breakdown in the system.

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  40. JoeNovember 7, 2009 at 7:54 AM

    I know I give fleming a hard time sometimes, but this post shows that he does have at least one talent: memorizing and repeating cliches.

    And his passion for "his" country is very moving, you know, telling people he doesn't like to get the "f" out.  But doesn't he realize that his country lost the Civil War 140 years ago, and it doesn't exsist anymore?

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  41. vNovember 7, 2009 at 8:22 AM

    Well fleming,  what you are defending is not "culture,"  it is supremacy.  No one is getting out of the country fleming,  we are going to change it - than you can leave if you like :)

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  42. MollyNovember 7, 2009 at 8:24 AM

    Look, the guy was crazy.  Period.  Many Christian soldiers turned on their own as well.  If the guy wasn't a Muslim, he would have found another reason to kill people.  Because he was crazy.  But yeah, sending people to horrible, unending, futile seeming wars does tend to push people over the edge.  But since it didn't push everyone over the edge, there is something different about this guy.  And that is that he is crazy, not Muslim.    

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  43. vNovember 7, 2009 at 8:25 AM

    That can be arranged fleming :)   It is because the gun is not the problem,  but whose cold dead hand the weapon resides.

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  44. MollyNovember 7, 2009 at 8:29 AM

    Palau?

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  45. MollyNovember 7, 2009 at 8:31 AM

    Yes, Jemmy, it even happened in Killeen, right next door to Fort Hood in '91, I believe.

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  46. MollyNovember 7, 2009 at 8:32 AM

    I can't even figure out who made the "defame Hasan" comment.

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  47. MollyNovember 7, 2009 at 8:33 AM

    Even if she weren't...

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  48. vNovember 7, 2009 at 8:33 AM

    Well Joe, things are not going to change for the better,  all one has to do is look at the plans of the current administration,  and the statements of its elite minions.  Take a look -

    WAGES WILL CONTINUE TO DECLINE - OBAMA'S PLAN

    http://notinhisname.blogdrive.com

    Or,

    BILLIONAIRES PLUNDER TOWNS AND ILLEGALLY CALL IN TROOPS

    http://notinhisname.blogdrive.com/archive/cm-10_cy-2009_m-10_d-25_y-2009_o-0.html

    Or,

    "YOU'RE JOBS ARE NOT COMING BACK"

    http://notinhisname.blogdrive.com/archive/cm-10_cy-2009_m-10_d-17_y-2009_o-0.html

    What do you think the chances are of things getting worse?

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  49. MollyNovember 7, 2009 at 8:34 AM

    Good link, r.s.

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  50. vNovember 7, 2009 at 8:40 AM

    However Joe,  I can tell you with certainty what has been left for the majority of the American people at this juncture -

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0ktKSRs6a4

    (Note the use of the American flag as a huffing rag, and the references to the "American Dream")

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  51. flemingNovember 7, 2009 at 8:46 AM

    Oh dear, the meglomaniacal Ward C, in the form of V, has come out from his cave.  In short order he is going to change the entire US, just by his little ole self.  He will have some help from disaffected fellow anarchists, societal outcasts and other folks from his island of misfit toys.  Gosh Im nervous.  Should I go ahead and use my dollar bills for kindling, V, or should I wait a week of two??? LOL

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  52. flemingNovember 7, 2009 at 8:48 AM

    Hey V, your Union brethren are watching their power wan as I type.  Hope you enjoyed your brief little time in the sun.

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  53. flemingNovember 7, 2009 at 8:48 AM

    RS said it, first page of comments

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  54. vNovember 7, 2009 at 8:55 AM

    Or Joe, you could take the advice inherent in the mind of Hunter Thompson,  who even in his most stoned moments was more salient in touching on what is needed -

    A CONSTRUCTIVE FLASHBACK - WHAT MUST BE DONE

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  55. vzaNovember 7, 2009 at 9:20 AM

    Obviously he is crazy, but his craziness was probably ignored because everybody along the chain of command was so afraid of being labeled Islamophobic. That is not good. When signs of instability are seen, we must err on the side of caution and concern for the greater good, and investigate.
    Let's not be naive folks, to say that no Muslims support his actions would be a lie. Just as some twisted Christians support the guy who killed the abortion doctor, and there are  extremist Jews who support the fundamentalist settlers' actions, there are Islamists in this country and they do exist. We do nobody any good, least of all innocent Muslims,by ignoring the nuts. I do not trust anybody who states they are Muslim first and American second. They simply cannot be trusted.

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  56. AnnNovember 7, 2009 at 9:31 AM

    I read something about the Ft Hood shooting where a soldier was quoted as saying the morale there was already low because they don't see any sense in going to Afghanistan, on top of the issues of overdeployment etc.  And that this was true even if they were pro-war in general.  I thought that was very revealing.

    It's Saturday now and a beautiful day.  Have a great weekend, everyone (you too Fleming)!

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  57. vzaNovember 7, 2009 at 9:46 AM

    And lest the inevitable cries of Islamophobia ensue, let me make it very clear that I feel the same way about ANYBODY who places an ideology/religion before their country. I think Jonathon Pollard, for example, should rot in prison. He is a traitor. Anyone else who places Israel's interests above our own is a traitor and that includes those dupes who raise funds for settlements. I felt that the Irish Catholics who raised funds to buy arms for the IRA were beyond the pale and should have been prosecuted.

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  58. AnnNovember 7, 2009 at 9:51 AM

    How about, we are human first, and (fill in the blank) second?  I don't mean to come off all touchy-feely/ sentimental or naive, but we are a global community in so many ways, if we don't get over nationalism there is not much hope we will ever sort out our problems.

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  59. AnonymousNovember 7, 2009 at 10:12 AM

    Get over our "nationalism"?  Like this perhaps?  Ahh, the good ole USA... LOL

    "
    DANANG, Vietnam – On the day his side lost the <span>Vietnam War</span>, Hung Ba Le fled his homeland at the age of 5 in a <span>fishing trawler</span> crammed with 400 refugees. Thirty-four years later, he made an unlikely homecoming — as the commander of a <span>U.S. Navy destroyer</span>.
    Le piloted the <span style="border-bottom: #0066cc 1px dashed; background: none transparent scroll repeat 0% 0%; cursor: hand;">USS Lassen</span> on Saturday into <span>Danang</span>, home of <span>China Beach</span>, where U.S. troops frequently headed for R&R during the war, which ended on April 30, 1975, when the southern city of <span>Saigon</span> was taken by communist troops from <span>North Vietnam</span>."

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  60. vNovember 7, 2009 at 10:13 AM

    Everyone except the nuts in the NSA and CIA needs to get it vza,  their brand of murder inc. is acceptable...lol Now sing America The Beautiful after me! :)

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  61. Iraqi MojoNovember 7, 2009 at 10:16 AM

    "RS" stands for "really stupid".  This is the same person who insisted that most Iraqis did not want Saddam overthrown.  

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  62. vzaNovember 7, 2009 at 10:19 AM

    I do not disagree with you, Ann. A common humanity should be the basis for all of our interactions, not our religion or ethnicity, or nation of origin. But this is a cruel world indeed, and you may not believe it, but there are people out there seeking our submission or destruction, and they just might be a bit worse than what you think we are! I would even concede that some of it is indeed blowback...but not all.

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  63. MollyNovember 7, 2009 at 10:22 AM

    He was harassed for being a Muslim.  That couldn't have helped either.  

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  64. MollyNovember 7, 2009 at 10:23 AM

    here's something my friend Maryloo wrote on facebook: <span style="color: #333333; ">this shooting means 12 less occupiers being sent to afghanistan iraq to shoot and terrorize folks there. think of it like this,.. if you don't want to get food on you - don't be a waitress. if you don't want to get your ass shot or blown up..don't join the military. simple. the u.s. military is the biggest terrorist or<span style="display: inline;">ganization on the planet and needs to be defeated by any means neccessary at home and abroad.</span></span>

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  65. Iraqi MojoNovember 7, 2009 at 10:24 AM

    LOL

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  66. MollyNovember 7, 2009 at 10:25 AM

    And what my friend Karam wrote: <span style="color: #333333; ">Chickens come home to roost- that is what came to my mind when I heard the news and reminded me of McVeigh and Nichols etc. Short and simple violence breeds violence. Those trained killing bodies in the American army are nothing but dormant sleepers against civilians wherever they are found. Bring the troops home and give them real jobs</span>

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  67. flemingNovember 7, 2009 at 10:41 AM

    Actually it doesnt mean 12 less.  It just means 12 different. 

    Your "friend" Maryloo is revolting.  She IS the enemy.  Her views are anathema to 99% of americans.  If she lives here, she is a true enemy of the state and should be treated as such.  If she is outside the US, then she is probably already an armed opponent.  Either way one can only hope she reaps her just "rewards".  

    Allah Akbhar! HAHAHA

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  68. Iraqi MojoNovember 7, 2009 at 10:50 AM

    Or one could look at it like this: one less psychiatrist to help soldiers deal with the madness of war.  Steven Green, the piece of shit who committed rape and murder in Mahmudiya, might have been discharged if a psychiatrist had determined he was mentally ill.  

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  69. AnonymousNovember 7, 2009 at 10:59 AM

    That's a pretty heartless attitude, and it is common in "progressive" circles, and it helps explain why most Americans are disengaged from politics. Most soldiers join the military soon after high school because of a combination of being manipulated by recruiters and lack of opportunity. I, for one, care about these kids. I don't want to see them killed or be responsible for some atrocity that will cripple them for life.

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  70. JoeNovember 7, 2009 at 10:59 AM

    That was me.

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  71. MollyNovember 7, 2009 at 11:03 AM

    Fleming, she lives in the UK.  She is a Palestinian, and sick of seeing the US support Israel stealing her country.  

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  72. JoeNovember 7, 2009 at 11:05 AM

    This whole incident makes me wonder what the function of a psychiatrist in the military is.(The psychiatric angle interests me more than the Islamic angle)). I mean, behavior that is encouraged in the military would by considered psychotic in a normal setting. The job of a military psychiatrist is to manipulate someone who feels remorse or trauma to get back out there and continue killing.

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  73. MollyNovember 7, 2009 at 11:06 AM

    Joe, to be honest, I don't know how to feel.  Yes, they are kids with no other opportunity.  Well, I don't know if they are all kids.  On the other hand, they are volunteering to kill people who have done nothing to themselves or their country.  One could look at it as they're stupid enough to believe they are defending this country.  And their stupidity has deadly consequences to innocent people.  But in the end, I don't believe anyone should be killed for being stupid and I'm sure they have kids.

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  74. flemingNovember 7, 2009 at 11:17 AM

    Of course she is Molly!  I knew it.  Its quite clear the Palestinians are our enemies, regardless of where they reside.  Oh and yes, cheering for the defeat of our armies, and their deaths, whether home or abroad, makes her, and those that think like her, 100% our sworn enemies.  Absolutely.
    And you, and her, and others, wonder why we consider Israel our best ally.  I mean, you never hear Israelis killing americans and then other Israelis cheering them on. 

    ReplyDelete
  75. flemingNovember 7, 2009 at 11:22 AM

    There are many reasons people join the military.  Some to see the world.  Some to learn a trade.  Some to get away from miserable home life.  Some out of duty to their country. Some because their father or mother served.  On and on. 

    The military academies are some of the most respected universities in the USA.  Do we think these are filled up with "stupid kids" who "just want to kill"?  Or that they have "no other opportunity"? 

    Your grossly oversimplified "analysis" of the kind of people the military attracts is beyond banal.  Its utterly meaningless.

    ReplyDelete
  76. AnnNovember 7, 2009 at 11:37 AM

    I agree up to a point.  A lot of recruits are very young and not well informed.  There is no strong antiwar movement to present the other side of the story and at least make them consider the downside of representing US policy.

    But we are responsible for our actions too -- no "I was only following orders" defense.  Yes, if our friends and family members want to join, let's argue most strenuously to keep them from going into the military.  And if they are in and conflicted or questioning and want out, they deserve support for that especially.

    ReplyDelete
  77. MollyNovember 7, 2009 at 11:54 AM

    There are certainly better ways to see the world than holed up in the Green Zone in Iraq.  and I never said they " just want to kill", so what's with the quotes?  But let's face it, a very large number of people in the military do it to support their families or get money for college.  Even Major Hasan!    

    ReplyDelete
  78. MollyNovember 7, 2009 at 11:55 AM

    well, you did hear of Israelis cheering on 9/11.  I can google it for you if you are interested.  

    ReplyDelete
  79. MollyNovember 7, 2009 at 12:02 PM

    There are some strains of militant Islam that could have encouraged this.  That does not mean Islam did.  

    ReplyDelete
  80. flemingNovember 7, 2009 at 12:05 PM

    Thanks Molly, Im familiar with Google.  LOL  Do you think if something comes up when googled that means its the absolute truth?  Really?  Really?  Gosh, what can I say. 

    We all heard about the so-called dancing israelis.  It was just so much bollox Molly.  Really, you expect me to fall for such gargage. Regardless, they did not take part in 9/11 did they? 

    Muslims perpetrated 9/11.  That we know.  Many muslims celebrated 9/11.  That we know.  Many muslims, like your two facebook pals, consider the US their enemy and seek its defeat.  That we KNOW.  They proudly espouse it.  They seek our defeat and our soldiers' deaths.  You cant be a bigger enemy than that.

    There is an article I posted here yesterday about muslims in the US that "loves Osama Bin Laden more than himself" and thinks all americans are targets, regardless of where they are.  'nuff said.

    ReplyDelete
  81. MollyNovember 7, 2009 at 12:07 PM

    Where did I say my facebook friends were Mulsims?

    ReplyDelete
  82. flemingNovember 7, 2009 at 12:08 PM

    "But let's face it, a very large number of people in the military do it to support their families or get money for college.  Even Major Hasan!"

    Show me hard stats based on real information.  Your assumptions of wny people join the military, based on an anecdote or "belief", are irrelevant.

    ReplyDelete
  83. flemingNovember 7, 2009 at 12:10 PM

    <span style="color: #3a3a3a;"><span>"Fleming, she lives in the UK.  She is a Palestinian, and sick of seeing the US support Israel stealing her country."</span></span>
    <span style="color: #3a3a3a;"><span></span></span>
    <span style="color: #3a3a3a;"><span>I assumed Muslim because she is palestinian.  Same difference for the purpose of this discussion. </span></span>

    ReplyDelete
  84. Iraqi MojoNovember 7, 2009 at 12:10 PM

    Could you repost that article?  I'd like to read it.  

    I don't know about Moyhabin and Yasmin, but I don't believe tgia seeks our "defeat and our solders' deaths".  

    ReplyDelete
  85. MollyNovember 7, 2009 at 12:11 PM

    Muslims, before you make fun of my spelling.  

    ReplyDelete
  86. flemingNovember 7, 2009 at 12:14 PM

    Im curious.  What other "strains" of religions have "militant strains"? 

    I mean there are uber believers and nutbaggers in every religion, I suppose.  But I really dont know of any other religion which has "large strains" that preach war, violence, suicide bombings, "jihad" and other such as "religious acts".  Very, very strange and incompatible with western/modernized values.

    ReplyDelete
  87. MollyNovember 7, 2009 at 12:17 PM

    The happy Israelis were reported by ABC news: http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=123885&page=1

    ReplyDelete
  88. MollyNovember 7, 2009 at 12:25 PM

    Oh, I don't know, Christians who believe waging war in the Mideast is hastening the endtimes, or who believe God told them to invade Iraq ?  Jews who think killing Amalek (now defined as Palestinians) is their religious duty.  Hindus who massacres Muslims?  Etc., etc.

    ReplyDelete
  89. MollyNovember 7, 2009 at 12:26 PM

    Well, you shouldn't assume Muslim because she is Palestinian.  

    ReplyDelete
  90. flemingNovember 7, 2009 at 12:26 PM

    What is the point Molly?  That Israel was really behind 9/11? 
    What kind of wild conspiracy theory are you going to try and sell me on?  

    On 9/11, 19 muslims took over 4 planes filled with innocent americans and made them giant unitting suicide bombers. They were trained and supported in muslim countries, by muslim leaders.  After the attack, much of the muslim world rejoiced. We know it, we feel it. 

    But sure, maybe those 5 myserious dancing israelis tell the "real story".  HAHHAHAHA

    ReplyDelete
  91. flemingNovember 7, 2009 at 12:31 PM

    Do you know of any Christian groups whose members actively and openly practice suicide bombings of innocent civilians?  Can you point to Christian groups who provide "security services" for their church by carrying around assault rifles in public areas? 

    Do you have tapes of any of their leaders of any of these groups calling for broad based violent acts by their followers, and for the rest of their religious brethren to join them in a vioent overthrow of the world order?

    There are always nutbaggers.  But your crazy ass muslim nutbaggers are the real cream of the crop.

    ReplyDelete
  92. flemingNovember 7, 2009 at 12:38 PM

    <span></span>HARTFORD, Conn. - A memorial to honor a Sept. 11 victim from a small northwestern Connecticut town has been halted by the unexpected conflict arising from his father's insistence it say his son was murdered by "Muslim terrorists."
    <span></span>Town officials in Kent are balking, saying it would be inappropriate to single out a religious group in a project on town property and paid for with taxpayers' money. The memorial plaque to be erected outside the town hall is on indefinite hold.
    <span></span>Peter Gadiel is criticizing town leaders for being too politically correct, and says he's frustrated about what he calls a growing trend across the country to soften the reality of the Sept. 11 attacks by not mentioning a word about terrorism on victims' memorials.

    ReplyDelete
  93. flemingNovember 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM

    Town leaders agree that Muslim terrorists were responsible for the attacks, but they insist that saying it on a public memorial plaque would be wrong. They say many local residents support their position, while most of the criticism is coming from outsiders.

    ReplyDelete
  94. AnnNovember 7, 2009 at 1:08 PM

    Hey, did you notice you're the only one talking any more?

    You've worn the rest of us out.

    ReplyDelete
  95. vzaNovember 7, 2009 at 1:09 PM

    I don't support  the term Muslim terrorists. Islamist terrorists, yes.

    ReplyDelete
  96. thankgodimatheistNovember 7, 2009 at 1:32 PM

    <span><span>Also it often looks like there are zero comments, and in fact going into comments reveals zero comments, even when there are in fact comments. </span> 
    Ann 
    ------------ 
    I never had this issue before. It looks like a problem with Internet Explorer. I recommend that you drop this lousy browser and download Firefox (free). It's far better and safer.. I urge you to do so as quickly as you can. Let's  give IE the finger for being such a hopeless product..And I'm not going into politics about Microsoft for the time being, a supplementary reason, that would be diverting from the topic.</span>

    ReplyDelete
  97. thankgodimatheistNovember 7, 2009 at 1:35 PM

    What??!! You never heard if only of Colombine?

    ReplyDelete
  98. thankgodimatheistNovember 7, 2009 at 1:42 PM

    <span> if we don't get over nationalism there is not much hope we will ever sort out our problems.</span>
    <span></span>------------
    What are you saying Ann? You want the insular fleming to extend his love beyond his tribe of far right loonies. How do you do that??

    ReplyDelete
  99. flemingNovember 7, 2009 at 1:46 PM

    <span>Outside a Manhattan mosque where the imam preaches against terrorism, the brothers of the "Revolution Muslim" are spreading a different message.  
    Protected by the Constitution of the country they detest, radical Muslim converts like Yousef al-Khattab and Younes Abdullah Mohammed preach that the killing of U.S. troops overseas is justified. In their thinking, so were the September 11, 2001, attacks on the United States -- and so are attacks on almost any American.  
    "Americans will always be a target -- and a legitimate target -- until America changes its nature in the international arena," Mohammed said in an interview to air on tonight's "AC 360."  
    Al-Khattab and Mohammed consider al Qaeda leader <span style="color: #004276;">Osama bin Laden</span> their model.  
    "I love him like I can't begin to tell you, because he doesn't seem to have done anything wrong from the sharia," al-Khattab said, referring to Islamic law. "If you're asking me if I love him as a Muslim, I love him more than I love myself."</span>
    <span></span>
    <span>Note: Not the entire article</span>

    ReplyDelete
  100. flemingNovember 7, 2009 at 1:47 PM

    <span><span>Outside a Manhattan mosque where the imam preaches against terrorism, the brothers of the "Revolution Muslim" are spreading a different message.    
    Protected by the Constitution of the country they detest, radical Muslim converts like Yousef al-Khattab and Younes Abdullah Mohammed preach that the killing of U.S. troops overseas is justified. In their thinking, so were the September 11, 2001, attacks on the United States -- and so are attacks on almost any American.    
    "Americans will always be a target -- and a legitimate target -- until America changes its nature in the international arena," Mohammed said in an interview to air on tonight's "AC 360."    
    Al-Khattab and Mohammed consider al Qaeda leader <span style="color: #004276;">Osama bin Laden</span> their model.    
    "I love him like I can't begin to tell you, because he doesn't seem to have done anything wrong from the sharia," al-Khattab said, referring to Islamic law. "If you're asking me if I love him as a Muslim, I love him more than I love myself."</span>  
    <span></span> 
    <span>Note: Not the entire article</span></span>

    ReplyDelete
  101. thankgodimatheistNovember 7, 2009 at 1:50 PM

    <span>I, for one, care about these kids. I don't want to see them killed or be responsible for some atrocity that will cripple them for life.</span>
    -------------
    Since this was signed guest , I assumed it was fleming. He does that sometimes, and I got a shock reading it! To hear hims aying that he cared about people was a first but then I discover who wrote it..Joe.
    It really explains it all. Does this piece of shit care about anything that is remotely human?

    ReplyDelete
  102. r.s.November 7, 2009 at 1:56 PM

    shut up Bozo

    ReplyDelete
  103. vzaNovember 7, 2009 at 2:04 PM

    Those nuts are scum and parasites. I'd have more respect for them if they gave up their cushy lives in the U.S. and actually went and joined jihad. Good riddance.

    ReplyDelete
  104. vzaNovember 7, 2009 at 2:11 PM

    The Muslim association of military members said they had received ZERO complaints from this guy and anyone else!

    ReplyDelete
  105. thankgodimatheistNovember 7, 2009 at 2:16 PM

    <span> I mean, you never hear Israelis killing americans and then other Israelis cheering them on. </span>
    -----------
    Selective hearing fleggo!
    Have you ever really heard of LIBERTY?
    "Yiftah Spector: I was the man who shot 'Liberty'"
    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=905841

    The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli jet fighter planes and motor torpedo boats on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War. The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two Marines, and a civilian), wounded 171 crew members, and damaged the ship severely. The ship was in international waters north of the Sinai Peninsula, about 25.5 nautical miles (47.2 km) northwest from the Egyptian city of Arish.<sup></sup><span>[</span>1<span>]</span>
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

    34 dead Americans..

    ReplyDelete
  106. vzaNovember 7, 2009 at 2:16 PM

    anan was referring to military bases and soldiers not civilians.

    ReplyDelete
  107. vzaNovember 7, 2009 at 2:17 PM

    And good for you anan, Hit back at these bullies who are always calling you names. They complain about fleming and they do the very same thing to you.

    ReplyDelete
  108. vzaNovember 7, 2009 at 2:19 PM

    Did you  really say that r.s? I have often wondered why you are so keen on the "resistance". Are you a Baath supporter?

    ReplyDelete
  109. vzaNovember 7, 2009 at 2:24 PM

    America, The Beautiful : Ray Charles '91



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghz4_kikLkE

    ReplyDelete
  110. flemingNovember 7, 2009 at 2:24 PM

    Oh, you mean that incident from 42 years ago.  Yea, heard of it. 

    FYI, we were AT WAR with Vietnam in the mid 70's - more recently than the Liberty. Thousands dead on each side.  Now we are friendly.  See also Japan and Germany after WWII.  Much different than an accident in which one ship is damaged, but the lesson is there: We know when it makes sense to move on. 

    Its just pathetic tgia.  You expect this one incident going to change our opinion relative to Palestine - even as palestinians actively rally against us and wish death and destruction upon us. 

    Just pathetic.  Really.  Did you know the Brits made war on American soil only 250 odd years ago?   Damn, we should go after them next! HAHAHHA

    ReplyDelete
  111. AnnNovember 7, 2009 at 3:43 PM

    Thank you, I'll try it.

    ReplyDelete
  112. MollyNovember 7, 2009 at 3:47 PM

    <span style="font-family: Times; ">
    <p>Uh, no that wasn't my point at all.  You said you don't see Israelis celebrating about the killing of Americans and I showed that they did.
    <p> 
    <p>By the way, Israelis do kill Americans.  Ever heard of Rachel Corrie? And there was at least one Palestinian American, too.
    </span>

    ReplyDelete
  113. MollyNovember 7, 2009 at 3:48 PM

    I read that article, Fleming.  Did you see the part where it said that both were converts?

    ReplyDelete
  114. MollyNovember 7, 2009 at 3:49 PM

    I know of a Christian that started a war that killed one million people.  A mega-homicide bomber, you might say.

    ReplyDelete
  115. thankgodimatheistNovember 7, 2009 at 3:53 PM

    How about the 'Liberty' Molly? 34 Americans dead!

    ReplyDelete
  116. thankgodimatheistNovember 7, 2009 at 3:54 PM

    And the American peace activist who was shot dead a month ago by an Israeli terrorist soldier.

    ReplyDelete
  117. MollyNovember 7, 2009 at 4:05 PM

    He wanted something more recent, tgia.  

    ReplyDelete
  118. thankgodimatheistNovember 7, 2009 at 4:20 PM

    Why does it have to be new? What difference does it make?

    ReplyDelete
  119. flemingNovember 7, 2009 at 4:32 PM

    That "christian" was responding to an attack.  Have you conveniently forgotten 9/11? 

    Iraq chose not to play ball.  They paid the price. 

    Regardless, the war was NOT conducted on religious grounds.  You will probably claim that it was, but that was not the case. 

    The analogy does not work Molly.  The US did not start the war on Christian grounds.  In fact many US christians argued AGAINST the war.  No prominent christians came out and urged soldiers to "kill the infidels" or any crud like that.

    ReplyDelete
  120. flemingNovember 7, 2009 at 4:34 PM

    I did see where they were converts.  So what?  Does that have some special meaning?  Who converted them?  What was the "sales pitch"?  Become a muslim where violence can be preached as part of your faith?

    ReplyDelete
  121. flemingNovember 7, 2009 at 4:37 PM

    5 Israelis on the word of one random person?  You dont even know why they were "dancing".  Is that the best you can do?  Really?  REALLY?  REALLY!!!???

    Because that is extremelyt weak.

    The millions of muslims who loved and celebrated the attacks made no bones about it. Muslims perpetrated the attacks.  Your "argument" is beyond weak.

    ReplyDelete
  122. MollyNovember 7, 2009 at 4:37 PM

    Responding to an attack by attacking people who didn't do it?  Bush told us God told him to do it, Fleming.  If he were  Muslim that would be called a jihad by you.

    ReplyDelete
  123. MollyNovember 7, 2009 at 4:38 PM

    He seemed to think we couldn't come up with anything recent, so I posted that to shut him up.  Not that it will work.  teehee

    ReplyDelete
  124. flemingNovember 7, 2009 at 4:42 PM

    You folks are the only people Ive ever known who think we will LIKE and SUPPORT your cause and abandon a current ally if you:
    - Kill us on our soil, and then blame us for it
    - Openly cheer for our demise and defeat
    - Threaten more attacks if we dont get in line
    - Constantly insult our intelligence about such matters in the expectation we will crumble in a pool of misery at our self recognized stupidity and beg you to "show us the way"

    I mean truly, your strategy couldnt be more misguided and self defeating.  But hey, what do I care.  Keep it up, you only make the situation worse for yourself, which is fine with me.

    ReplyDelete
  125. ananNovember 7, 2009 at 5:07 PM

    LOL

    ReplyDelete
  126. ananNovember 7, 2009 at 5:08 PM

    Oh my God. I agree with Fleming. Excuse me, I think I am going to puke.

    ReplyDelete
  127. flemingNovember 7, 2009 at 5:11 PM

    Absurd Molly.  Bush didnt make the decision on his own remember.  Congress signed off. 

    Did you hear anyone in congress call for the killing of all "non-believers" Molly?

    ReplyDelete
  128. ananNovember 7, 2009 at 6:23 PM

    r.s. Please don't call Mojo a Bozo. If you met him in person, you would realize that he was pretty darn smart.

    ReplyDelete
  129. ananNovember 7, 2009 at 6:24 PM

    The reason to go to Afghanistan is to train and equip the ANSF, as well as to increase the civilian capacity of Afghan institutions.

    I think the ANSF and GIRoA can win this thing. Apparently, Ann, you don't. Why don't you have faith in them?

    ReplyDelete
  130. ananNovember 7, 2009 at 6:29 PM

    Oh my God. Molly, these people voluntarily take a pay cut to work for the military and serve their country. If not for them, The Takfiri extremists would have probably already taken over Pakistan and the nuclear arsenal. Then all of us would have been doomed.

    ReplyDelete
  131. ananNovember 7, 2009 at 6:32 PM

    Molly, Bush Junior went to war in Iraq because Saddam tried to kill his Dad.

    ReplyDelete
  132. ananNovember 7, 2009 at 6:37 PM

    I don't think fleming is listening to you TGIA. He isn't responding with respect to the 'Liberty.'

    How about this TGIA. Israel was after Russia, Serbia's closest ally in 1993-1999. Israel was still sending Serbia cutting edge arms in 1995 when NATO fought a war with Serbia, and months before the 1999 Serbia NATO war in Kosovo.


    Israel has a habit of transferring cutting edge US defense technology intensive weapons to America's enemies. Israel has also supplied a lot of US technology to Russia and China (which admittedly are not US enemies.)

    Why on earth is the US giving Israel, a rich country, $3 billion a year in grants? It makes no sense. What does Israel do for America?

    TGIA, Molly, Mojo, VZA, et all, I don't think Flemming will respond.

    ReplyDelete
  133. ananNovember 7, 2009 at 6:39 PM

    Flemming is right here. If Palestinians want American support, Palestinians will need to treat America more respectfully. Not that Palestinians need to agree with America; but they need to express their disagreements with America respectfully.

    ReplyDelete
  134. Iraqi MojoNovember 7, 2009 at 9:19 PM

    Thanks. I found the article and found this to be very interesting:

    '<span style="">Al-Khattab calls President Obama "a murderer, a tyrant, a scumbag," and says he wouldn't "shed a tear" if Obama were killed. But he added, "Would I incite his murder? That's not what I teach."</span>

    <span style="">Mohammed calls himself an American "by default" who identifies with Muslims. Al-Khattab, a Jew who lived in Israel before converting to Islam, says he "would like to see a mushroom cloud" over the Jewish state -- "but before that, I'd like to see the people guided, and I'd like them to go back to their original countries where they're from."</span>

    <span style="">But federal agents are not only watching them, they're watching some of those who are listening.'</span>

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/11/05/radicals.mosque/index.html

    ReplyDelete
  135. flemingNovember 8, 2009 at 6:56 AM

    This is such bullshit anan.  You have no proof.  Only conjecture based on your own tribal background.  This is the US.  We dont conduct ourselves like your kin in Pakistan.  The President cannot go to war alone.  He must have congressional support.  Which he did.  Or maybe, did Saddam try and kill the fathers of all US congresspersons?  LOL

    ReplyDelete

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