Sunday, October 25, 2009

A look back on the fall of communism

It's 20 years since the fall of the Berlin Wall and Karl Marx, grandfather of communism, is being rehabilitated. Looking back on the unravelling of the Soviet system and the unlikely staying power of a once-ridiculed worldview
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33 comments:

  1. MaracatuOctober 25, 2009 at 7:35 AM

    I have some disagreements with this article.  However, I think Marx's "chief contribution" (which wasn't his at all) was his X-ray of capitalism based on the labor theory of value:  Labor is the source of all value.

    Let me approach why I say this from another angle:  The labor theory of value was more or less put forth by the capitalist icons of Smith and Ricardo.  Yet, when Marx embraced its principle tenets, capitalists have been going out of their way (literally bursting their arteries) to discredit it.  That capitalists flee frantically from the labor theory of value as though it were the plague ought to tell you something.

    I am eternally fascinated at how many capitalists and capitalist ideologues, whom I have argued incessantly with, have feverishly used the failure of Marx to predict the historical victory of socialism and communism over capitalism as an opportunity to try to discredit the labor theory of value.

    The two need to be considered separately. 

    While the inevitable march toward socialism and communism may not have occured, this has NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on the legitimacy or not of the labor theory of value.  The labor theory of value is as airtight and congruent as it has ever been and serves as unbridled proof as to who is ultimately responsible for creating the wealth that has benefited the world (albeit in a highly skewed manner).

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  2. flemingOctober 25, 2009 at 9:19 AM

    Maracutu: This is not academia.  No one knows what you are talking about.  Few care. 

    "I am eternally fascinated at how many capitalists and capitalist ideologues, whom I have argued incessantly with,..."

    But of course you have!  Of course you have.  You are as capitalist as much as I am muslim.

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  3. MaracatuOctober 25, 2009 at 10:11 AM

    Cur etiam hic es?

    El gato y el ratón nunca son de la misma opinión.

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  4. AnonymousOctober 25, 2009 at 12:25 PM

    I am still here because I find you so utterly annoying.  Especially when you use other languages in an attempt to obfuscate, intimidate and disguise the weakness of your "points".

    "The cat and the mouse are never the same opinion"

    Why use spanish when your lame-ass point is just as lame-ass in english?

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  5. flemingOctober 25, 2009 at 12:27 PM

    above was me...

    Or: ovan var jag

    In Swedish!  Arent I so clever??? HAHAHHA

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  6. Jemmy HopeOctober 25, 2009 at 1:13 PM

    Fleming, I suppose you are one of those anti-intellectual yanks who give the world the impression that all yanks are dumb. (I know you don't give a miniscule rat turd what the rest of the world thinks). Remember John Kerry's great crime, "He speaks FRENCH!"
    I like Maracatú's Latin tags, they raise the tone. Maybe that's your problem as you labour (means labor) to turn this site into a midden.
    What have the Swedes done to merit your attention? Beware the Swedish social democratic virus.

    Welcome back (with reservations)

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  7. thankgodimatheistOctober 25, 2009 at 2:18 PM

    Great comment Mara. Contrary to what this gentleman "thinks" I personally enjoy reading your comments about this area of expertise such as the economy. Could he just engage in a debate on the ideas he disagrees with instead of trying to debase the comment with silly and nasty remarks.. We can only dream on. I told the guy is just a pathetic piece of useless shit. Not that you didn't know mind you.

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  8. thankgodimatheistOctober 25, 2009 at 2:19 PM

    <span>Great comment Mara. Contrary to what this fleming gentleman "thinks" I personally enjoy reading your comments about this area of expertise whixh way out of my reach, such as the economy. Could he just engage in a debate on the ideas he disagrees with here  instead of trying to debase the comment with silly and nasty remarks.. We can only dream on. I told the guy is just a pathetic piece of useless shit. Not that you didn't know mind you.</span>

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  9. thankgodimatheistOctober 25, 2009 at 2:21 PM

    Have you ever played pinball fleming?I'll let yout you guess whast I mean by that question.

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  10. thankgodimatheistOctober 25, 2009 at 2:24 PM

    Why shouldn't Mara write about such things? What's your problem with it asshole? Why don't you let people write whatever they feel right or necessary? Who appointed you to assess what's annoying or not?

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  11. thankgodimatheistOctober 25, 2009 at 2:29 PM

    fleming..Kiss ikhtak shoe kalbeh..
    Google that!

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  12. thankgodimatheistOctober 25, 2009 at 2:29 PM

    Petit con.

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  13. thankgodimatheistOctober 25, 2009 at 2:30 PM

    <span>Petit con.</span>
    Google that.

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  14. flemingOctober 25, 2009 at 2:34 PM

    Good to be back (with reservations)

    Ah yes Jemmy Whemmy, I thrive on my extreme obtuseness.  In fact I like to thrust into the face of the world, screaming, see, we are dumber than shit yet we still are the mightiest country in the world.  Doesnt it just suck??

    Latin is fine, and I studied it in high school and briefly college.  I usually dont mind its use on old buildings or pronouncements of great gravitas LOL.  

    But you see that is not the case with Maracutu.  He employs his latin as would a bully in a schoolyard.  He is saying that if one cant communicate in latin then he must be their intellectual superior, thus rendering all dicussion moot in the face of his giant intellect.   I reject that 100%.

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  15. flemingOctober 25, 2009 at 2:41 PM

    The swedes were chosen at random, no ulterior motive or message.  But I do "beware them".  Somehow they cannot understand how their little homogenuous haven is not replicable the world over.

    BTW, I actually enjoy our little back and forths.  You have a saracastic (but not caustic) sense of humor that I enjoy.  Kind of like trading barbs with a good lad/bloke/mate/pal/buddy in a pub/bar over a pint/draught.  Insults are sure to ensue, some of which are grounded in truth, but that is what guys do.   

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  16. flemingOctober 25, 2009 at 2:45 PM

    Petit con: (fr) boy who spend all his time on the internet making up imaginary sex terms which he's never experienced.
    I dont find our interactions engaging, interesting or enlightening.  You will please excuse if, as vza suggested, henceforth I ignore your posts.

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  17. vOctober 25, 2009 at 3:20 PM

    Are you solving the problems of thw world with a pint flemming? Or are you exacerbating them?  I do not expect you to know the difference so it is a moot point...lol

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  18. thankgodimatheistOctober 25, 2009 at 3:42 PM

    <span>we are dumber than shit yet we still are the mightiest country in the world. </span>
    ---------------
    More chest thumping from the gorilla..A nice change indeed.

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  19. thankgodimatheistOctober 25, 2009 at 3:44 PM

    No fleming..You can't google those things..
    Never mind..

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  20. thankgodimatheistOctober 25, 2009 at 3:55 PM

    His problem is that he simply doesn't tolerate other people's opinions but he  likes to think it's the other way around.
    Cognitive dissonance.

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  21. thankgodimatheistOctober 25, 2009 at 4:07 PM

    We have to settle for one thing with the dude..There's absolutely nothing to learn from him. We have to be content with being bullied..

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  22. flemingOctober 25, 2009 at 4:13 PM

    Gee tgia, if you are so open minded, why dont you tell us about the last time you "tolerated" a MAJOR position stance different from your own on the palestinian/israeli thing?   Or perhaps the last time someone convinced YOU that you were wrong about some significant issue in the palestine/israel situation? 

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  23. thankgodimatheistOctober 25, 2009 at 4:43 PM

    Look here fleming..Look here very carefully..You have NO position and you never had. On the other hand you have a strange attitude problem. You're a bully of the worst kind. You do not tolerate any opinion of any kind among our commentators and like a chihuahuah barks at anyone who dares walking past. I'm quite pleased to tell you that you can think whatever the reason you'd be banned for but the problem remains. You're a barking mad bully. The day you're happy to just stating your opinion and go you'll be treated like eveybody else, otherwise it's PINBALL with your ass and I'm happy to play!

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  24. thankgodimatheistOctober 25, 2009 at 4:45 PM

    <span>Look here fleming..Look here very carefully..You have NO position and you never had. On the other hand you have a strange attitude problem. You're a bully of the worst kind. You do not tolerate any opinion of any kind among our commentators and like a chihuahuah barks at anyone who dares walking past. I'm quite pleased to tell you that you can think whatever the reason you'd be banned for but the problem remains. You're a barking mad bully. The day you're happy to just state your opinion whatever it is and go or comment on whatever other commentators have stated in a civil manner, you'll be treated like eveybody else, otherwise it's PINBALL with your ass and I'm happy to play!</span>

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  25. flemingOctober 25, 2009 at 5:01 PM

    Dodging my question, eh tgia...

    Lets see, Im the bully, yet you are the one constantly threatening to ban, and then banning, and then unbanning, and then re-banning, in order that I BEHAVE in a way that YOU approve.  So...who is the bully?

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  26. thankgodimatheistOctober 25, 2009 at 5:09 PM

    You didn't get do you?

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  27. flemingOctober 25, 2009 at 5:39 PM

    Guess not.

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  28. thankgodimatheistOctober 25, 2009 at 6:17 PM

    <span><span>Great comment Mara. Contrary to what this fleming gentleman "thinks" I personally enjoy reading your comments about this area of expertise which is way out of my reach, such as the economy. Could he just engage in a debate on the ideas he disagrees with here  instead of trying to debase the comment with silly and nasty remarks.. We can only dream on. I told the guy is just a pathetic piece of useless shit. Not that you didn't know mind you.</span></span>

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  29. r.s.October 25, 2009 at 6:57 PM

    <p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="">The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it.  If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth:  if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error.  - John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859</span>
    <p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=""> </span>

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  30. thankgodimatheistOctober 25, 2009 at 11:59 PM

    but that is what guys do. 
    --------------
    Geezus kryste get me out of here! This macho shit is vomit inducing..Puke!!!

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  31. thankgodimatheistOctober 26, 2009 at 12:27 AM

    <span> but that is what guys do.   </span>
    ----------
    I can see what the problem is..
    Kryste.

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  32. Jemmy HopeOctober 26, 2009 at 12:20 PM

    Fleming, do you post on any websites where you can write, "I'm in complete agreement with that statement"? you know something like 'Worshippers of the Almighty Dollar', or 'The Ayn Rand Fan Club'. I'd love to visit and poke fun at the bedlamites. 

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  33. flemingOctober 26, 2009 at 5:31 PM

    Sorry Jemmy, Im a fighter not a lover...hahah 

    Now my veiws are confirmed in many of the media sources I frequent - such as the Wall Street Journal, Barrons, CNBC, random emails from buddies and many other outlets. But that doesnt really help you, does it. 

    Ayn Rand does rock.  She predicted what is basically happening now in Atlas Shrugged: "From those according to their ability, to those according to their need" 

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