Saturday, July 25, 2009

Joe Glenton - Serving Soldier refusing to return to Afghanistan London July 23 2009


Serving soldier Joe Glenton speaks about why he thinks the war in Afghanistan is wrong and why he's not going back.
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23 comments:

  1. anandJuly 25, 2009 at 1:14 PM

    Helmand province (one of 34 in Afghanistan) has about 45% (or more) of all violence in Afghanistan. It is commanded by the Brigadier General Gori's 3rd Bde, 205th ANA Corps, and British troops. It is also the province where opinion polls show the Taliban has greater public support than anywhere else in Afghanistan. (In most of Afghanistan, more than 91% have an unfavorable view of the Taliban; but in Helmand, the percentage is lower than anywhere else.)

    BruceR, who was a former advisor for 205th ANA Corps from the Canadian military, speaks highly of BG Gori:
    http://www.snappingturtle.net/flit/archives/2009_07_14.html#006476
    Unfortunately, the ANA in Helmand are heavily understaffed. Hence BG Ghori has difficulty maintaining security for the Helmand people.

    The ANP in the province use to be a disaster (another British disaster . . . the Brits have a bad habbit with that type of thing.)

    Personally, I don't think the Brits (excluding SAS and the Royal Marines) are good fighters or good at COIN (compared to the Dutch, Danish, French, Canadians, Australians, Indians, 203rd ANA Corps, or the US Marines and Army)

    I have long wondered why the ANP in Helmand have performed more poorly than ANP elsewhere in Afghansitan. If people like Joe Glenton were training them, that would be an answer.

    The Brits had better get their act together, and do a better job training and equipping the ANA and ANP in Helmand.

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  2. anandJuly 25, 2009 at 1:19 PM

    I should also mention that about 90% of Afghan poppy comes from Helmand, the British province in Afghanistan. Why are so many Brits so incompetent?

    I think Helmand needs more better quality ANP, and probably two brigades of ANA with 5 combat line battalions each. The Afghan government needs to do more to help the people from Helmand. My thoughts anyway.

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  3. r.s.July 25, 2009 at 6:34 PM

    <p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #404040; font-family: Verdana;">Thousands of US marines, together with 5,000 British troops concentrated in the Helmand province, are involved in the brutal suppression of opposition to foreign occupation. These intense “clear and hold” operations have seen a rise in the number of troop casualties. </span>
    <p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #404040; font-family: Verdana;"> </span>
    <p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #404040; font-family: Verdana;">Close to three coalition force troops are being killed daily.</span>
    <p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #404040; font-family: Verdana;"> </span>
    <p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #404040; font-family: Verdana;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojY-ydAyL_M</span>

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  4. vzaJuly 25, 2009 at 7:40 PM

    Oh, real nice, r.s., opposition to foreign occupation...invest those Taliban with noble aims, right?

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  5. GuestJuly 25, 2009 at 8:34 PM

    <span style=""></span>
    <span style="">I know you don't care but it might be useful to know who is shooting at you. Not everyone is Taliban.</span>

    <span style="">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWT1kqoeszI</span>

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  6. r.s.July 25, 2009 at 8:38 PM

    I know you don't care but it might be useful to know who is shooting at you. Not all are Taliban.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWT1kqoeszI

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  7. anandJuly 26, 2009 at 12:08 AM

    r.s. most Afghans consider the Taliban a foreign occupation. Many of their fighters are not Afghan. This is especially the case outside of Helmand (11 attacks a day) and Kandahar (4 attacks a day.) {These are the two most violent provinces in Afghanistan and the only provinces where the Taliban enjoy significant popular support. About 65% of all Afghan violence is in these two provinces.}

    In the most recent period, ANA have lost more dead than the entire ISAF (all more than 40 countries) combined. The ANP suffered about three times as many dead as the ANA:
    http://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/pdfs/1230_June%C2%AD2009Final.pdf
    But then you know this. You also know that in the Feb 9, 2009, public opinion poll, 91% of Afghans have a negative view of the Taliban (and 91% had a negative view of Pakistan, 92% negative on Osama.) You further know that 87% in the June, 2009, poll, had a positive view of the ANA.

    Perhaps you are a supporter of Pakistan and feel that the ANA, ANP and elected Afghan government are anti Pakistan. I don't deny that many Pakistanis think so. However, they are wrong. The Afghans want good relations with their Pakistani brothers (in case this is really what concerns you.)

    Let's get to the real issue here. What are you concerns regarding the elected Afghan government and ANA?

    Would you like to talk to someone who advised the 205th ANA in Kandahar and interacted with the 3rd Brigade, 205th ANA Corps--whose area of operation is Helmand province? {For the record, he liked BG Gori, commander of the 3-205 ANA.}

    R.S. do you have evidence that the people of Helmand do not like 3-205 ANA? If so, please present this evidence.

    As I said before, of all 34 Afghan provinces, the Taliban has more popular support in Helmand than in any other province, based on the polls I have seen.

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  8. anandJuly 26, 2009 at 12:42 AM

    R.S. I saw your clip. It looked to me like some combination of Punjabi Taliban (that might have served in Kashmir), and Pakistani Pathan Pashtu. Some of these soldiers looked like retired Pakistani Army. There are a lot of these types of fighters in Konar (3rd most violent province in Afghanistan.) Konar, or Kunar, is a very mountainous province along the Durand line. These fighters were initially formed, trained and equipped by the Pakistani Army to fight India; but now seem to spend most of their time fighting Afghans, ISAF, and Pakistani Army.

    If you look at any of the briefings from East Afghanistan (of which Konar is part), they state that the Taliban is not their primary enemy. The largest enemy is the Haqqani Network, which until recently was an ISI asset. Haqqani and his allies might have been involved with the attack against the Indian embassy in Kabul and the Mumbai attacks. Many Punjabi Taliban work for him, and he has had a long association with the Kashmir Jihad. Some top Pakistani Army leaders have defended Haqqani even in the last few days.

    The second largest threat in the East is probably Hekmatyur, who has also traditionally been close to Pakistan. The Taliban is probably the third largest threat in the east.

    By contrast, the Taliban (and a home grown insurgency at that) is the dominant threat in Helmand and Kandahar (the two most violent provinces out of 34) based on the briefings from the south.

    The good news in Konar and the east is that the best Corps in the ANA, the 203rd Corps, fights in the East and Konar. The 203rd ANA is CM-1; and conducts operations independently. 1st Bde, 203 ANA, might be the best quality brigade in the ANA. All five of its battalions are CM-1 (the first bde in the entire ANA to achieve this.) 203rd ANA, and the ANP, bear most of the load in the East and Konar. Unfortunately, however, 203rd ANA only has 3 brigades versus the 4 it needs. One of the brigades it should have gotten has been sent south and west to deal with more urgent threats.

    Your clip was wrong to suggest that additional ISAF might be headed to Konar or the 203rd ANA battlespace. The additional ISAF troops are headed to the South (Marines, Brits), the West (Italians, Spanish, US), or the North (Germans, Poles and others.) The only exception to that has been that the French have sent some additional troops to Konar and the East last year. {This might have been to relive American troops for deployments to the South and West.}

    I doubt more US troops head to the East or Konar; unless Karzai redeploys ANA and ANP from the East to other parts of Afghanistan. If anything, US troops are likely to gradually draw down. The ANA in Konar are by all accounts good fighters.

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  9. anandJuly 26, 2009 at 12:49 AM

    R.S. maybe you can share your thoughts on this question: Why are the Afghan Pashtu from the East (such as Konar) more anti Taliban, anti Pakistan, and pro Afghan government than the Pashtu in the South according to public opinion polls?

    My understanding was that the ANA was heavily East Pashtu with less Southern Pashtu. However, BruceR, 205th ANA advisor from Kandahar, insists that the ANA he worked with had many Southern Pashtu. He described them as highly motivated, although not as good at battalion and brigade level coordinated manouvers. Perhaps large numbers of Southern Pashtu joined the IA recently, or perhaps Southern Pashtu disproportionately fight for 205th ANA? Or perhaps the initial data I had was incorrect?

    I argued with BruceR that the problems in Helmand were the consequence of the poor performance of British troops and the British trained 3rd Bde, 205th ANA. He insisted I was being to harsh on ANA 3-205. He thought highly of its commander BG Ghori, and said that the 3-205 had been conducting a high tempo of operations. It is just that the threat in Helmand was too great for 3-205 to handle without more forces.

    R.S. who do you blame for the problems in Helmand? Karzai? Provincial Governor? ANP? BG Ghori's ANA 3-205? British troops?

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  10. Jemmy HopeJuly 26, 2009 at 2:56 AM

    "You don't use good iron to make nails, or good men to make soldiers." (Chinese proverb)

    Nandoo-gandoo, you are so full of **it. 91% of Afghans hate the Taliban, 91% of Afghans hate Pakistan. You modestly omitted a couple of stats from your survey; 99% of Afghans love India, and 99% worship America. 50% believe that Dick Cheney is the Hidden Imam, and 30% turn toward Hollywood  when praying.
    Punjabi Taliban? How many? Ten? Twenty?
    Tariq Ali states the plain fact in the video below: the Taliban are first and foremost a Pukhtun fighting force. Like the majority of Pukhtun they are imbued with all that honour and haram socialisation that poses as religion in some parts of the world. Take "religion" out of the equation and you will still have a tribally organised people resisting an occupying force.
    My solution: Pakistan should hand over their Pukhtun province to the Afghans, as was supposed to have happened by now. If the Afghans can't accommodate the Pushtun then they should accept the existence of an independent Pushtunwa, and let the tribes battle for supremacy. Everyone else should clear out and leave them to it.

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  11. anandJuly 26, 2009 at 12:17 PM

    <span style="border-collapse: separate; color: #000000; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-family: arial; ">

    Jemmy, in East Afghanistan, the ANA would tell you that perhaps a majority of their dead soldiers in the East are killed by "foreign fighters." You know what this euphamism means. The commander of ISAF RC-East, when he was asked if this was true, just put on a big smile. He said, read my smile. I have been told that part of the reason it is so difficult to determine the exact number of Pakistanis, Chechans and Arabs, is that the ANA and ANP have a tendency to claim that everyone they are fighting is a foreign fighter. {The typical ANA or ANP really dislike the Taliban; that is why they volunteered.} ISAF is more speptical, but sometimes Afghans can't be argued with.
    Specifically with respect to Punjabi Taliban; as best as I can determine they primarily fight for Haqqani, who is the largest adversary of ISAF and ANSF in East Afghanistan. Some also fight for Hekmatyur, who again mostly fights in East Afghanistan. The Taliban, as you say, are mostly Pashtu (although many are Pathan Pakistani Pashtu), and operate mostly in Helmand and Kandahar. Maybe the foreign fighter component in East Afghanistan accounts for why the Taliban is so unpopular among East Afghan Pashtu; but have some popular support in Helmand and Kandahar (the two most violent provinces with about 65% of all Afghan violence.)
    Jemmy, there are scores of public opinion polls on Afghanistan. Look up any of them. Two from this year are below:
    <span style="">http://www.iri.org/newsreleases/pdfs/2009%20June%2016%20Survey%20of%20Af...</span>
    <span style="">http://www.cmi.no/pdf/?file=/afghanistan/doc/1083a1Afghanistan2009.pdf</span>
    </span></span>

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  12. anandJuly 26, 2009 at 12:18 PM

    <span style="border-collapse: separate; color: #000000; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-family: arial; ">

    Most Afghan Pashtu detest the Taliban, and support the ANA. In fact, President Karzai's strongest political support comes from Afghan Pasthtu. However, there are major differences between different Pashtu regions and tribes. In the most recent June poll, they broke down a new subgroup: Pashtu who see themselves as Pashtu first, Afghan second. This group accounts for 10% of Afghans and have very different views from most Afghan Pashtu.
    You might be interested in evaluating their views on your own Jemmy. There is a lot of granular information in the poll. Is this the subgroup minority of Afghan Pashtu you are calling<span> </span><span style="border-collapse: separate; color: #000000; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="">Pashtunwa?</span></span>
    A lot of Afghans criticize America a lot. Part of the reason is a widely held perception that America backs the unpopular Taliban and Pakistan. {Mind you I don't agree that America backs the Taliban, but many Afghans disagree with me.} By far the most popular country among Afghans in opinion polls is India. But that is probably just something Afghans say to annoy their traditional rivals in Pakistan; versus something they deeply believe. Christopher Hitchens has described the real war as the war that dare not speak its name; the war between Afghanistan and Pakistan.
    But much more popular among Afghans than India, is the ANA. The ANA is much more popular than the ANP, Afghan Government, Karzai, Imams, Mosques, or anything else among Afghans . . . most of whom are very nationalistic (except for the 10% who declare that they are Pashtu first, Afghans second.) 87% of Afghans have a favorable view of the ANA in the June poll.
    </span></span>

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  13. anandJuly 26, 2009 at 12:28 PM

    Beware of Tariq Ali. He is sympathetic to the Pakistani perspective. Remember that even a few days ago, members of the Pakistani army were praising Hekmatyur (a long time loyal ally of Pakistan agianst India from the perspective of some parts of the Pakistani establishment.)

    Tariq's view that the ANA is an army of occupation (Tajiks, Hazaras, Uzbechs, Turkman) oppressing Pashtu is ridiculous. Many Pashtu fight in ANA. Many Southern Pashtu fight in 205th ANA Corps in Kandahar and Helmand.

    Jemmy, your solution is for Afghanistan and Pakistan to withdraw from some areas and allow an indefinite civil war where hundreds of thousands would probably die? What areas should both countries withdraw from? Please be specific. Keep in mind that many of President Karzai's most fervant supporters are from Kandahar and Helmand. Southern Pashtu Afghanistan is his political base.

    I think AQ linked terrorists would use your bloodbath of chaos and civil war to attack countries all over the world. You couldn't keep a Pashtu civil war contained. It would almost certainly expand to include much of Pakistan and parts of India. Remember the large role Pathan Pashtu have played in Kashmir fighting.

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  14. Jemmy HopeJuly 28, 2009 at 7:11 AM

    Anand, are you programmed to come out with this stuff? Successful propaganda must contain a germ of truth in order to be effective. Please try harder, fairy tales won't pass muster.
    "Foreign fighters" means Pukhtun from the Pakistani side of the Durand line. It's convenient for the Afghan spin doctors to recognise the border for this purpose and this purpose only. For all other purposeses they regard the Pukhtun territory lying in Pakistan as belonging to Afghanistan, which is historically correct.
    Tariq Ali takes a Pakistani perspective - what, pray, is that? If you ever manage to read Comrade Tariq on Pakistan you'll find that he has nothing good to say about any party, politician or official body in that phoney country (cf. Israel). Try reading him some day.
    Pukhtunwa, or Pushtunwa, is the nation that the Pukhtun/Pushtun/Pathans believe is their rightful sovereign homeland. Some call it Pushtunistan. The fact that they can't even agree on what to call themselves bodes ill for a future Pukhtun state. The Pukhtun are like the Kurds; when they can't fight an external enemy they turn on each other. Give them their sovereignty and let them fight and feud to a standstill. Turn Afghanistan over to the Tajiks, Hazaras, etc.
    Why does anyone want to control Afghan territory anyway. I know that the Pakisani general staff and the ISI want to run the heroin trade, but what about the Yanks? There was something about an oil pipeline. Is that still the reason they are killing and dying, or has the whole disgraceful affair gained a momentum of its own. No way out - certainly no face-saving way out.
    The British are bad fighters? How much soldiering have you done, smartarse? How does this sort of ponticating sit with your bullshit about Gandhi and non-violence?

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  15. anandJuly 28, 2009 at 6:34 PM

    PM Maliki and the IA (Iraqi Army) describe the Brits as poor fighters. They say all sorts of bad things about them. The worst division in the entire IA was the one trained by the Brits, 10th IAD (before the Iraqis kicked the Brits out of it and asked the Americans and Georgians to train it.) The worst quality IP in all of Iraq were the British trained IP. (Iraqi Police.)

    Why are the Brits so darn incompetent? How the great have fallen.

    Tariq is very subtle. His goal is to overthrow the democratically elected GIRoA (Gov Islamic Republic of Afghanistan), and the ANA and ANP loyal to it. The ANA, has many Pashtu fighters in it; and they have high moral. They especially love to kill Taliban, Haqqani, and Hekmatyur.

    Many non Pashtu Pakistanis fight inside Afghanistan. The reason it is hard to give a number is that the ANA and ANP insist that most of the people they fight are "Pakistani." They also claim that many are "Arab" "Chechan" or Chinese. ISAF argues with them on this, but the Afghans are emotional on the subject.

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  16. anandJuly 28, 2009 at 6:44 PM

    37% of Afghans are Pashtu. All three primary presidential candidates have Pashtu blood in their veins. Pashtu vote heavily in Afghan elections; fight and die in the ANA and ANP.

    In the June 2009 Afghan public opinion poll (neither you nor Tariq gives a damn what Afghans think), 10% of Afghans defined themselves as Pashtu first and Afghans second. This 10% forms the heart of the Taliban base in Afghanistan. However, many live in mixed areas next to Pashtu who define themselves as Afghans first; or Tajiks/Hazaras/Turkmen/Uzbechs.

    So what specific districts (out of over 450 in Afghanistan's 34 provinces) would you give to this "Pashtunwala" of yours. Again please be specific. Will you celebrate another 1947 or 1948 style Partition with mass murder and death?

    Tariq disagrees with you by the way. He wants to give large parts of Afghanistan that hate the Taliban to the Taliban to advance Tariq's own aims.

    On the "NATURAL GAS" pipeline:
    -Afghans want to build it because it would generate $300 million in annual transit fees to the GIRoA.
    -Pakistanis would benefit from another $300 million in annual transit fees.
    -Pakistanis and Indians would benefit from lower natural gas prices
    -Central Asia would benefit from higher natural gas prices

    Who exactly loses from this? Why Tariq and his racist friends.

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  17. Jemmy HopeJuly 29, 2009 at 2:33 AM

    Ah! Tariq Ali, the evil genius behind the conflict in South Asia. Is he more or less evil than the demon Saddam?
    Public opinion, I'll just say that any survey that has more than 90% of the sample in one camp was either conducted at gunpoint, or was subject to 'creative' data processing.
    To reiterate, "you don't use good iron to make nails, or good men to make soldiers". Shaka Zulu could order his brave warriors to march over a cliff, and they did so. They feared Shaka more than they feared any enemy. The secret of an army that fights heroically for a cause that is not its own is greater fear of commanders than of the enemy. Don't stop to think, obey. I respect Joe Glenton, and any soldier who has the courage to say "NO" to his superior officer. Any true Gandhian would respect him more than the brainwashed canon fodder who participate in war crimes at the behest of the White House and the Pentagon.

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  18. anandJuly 29, 2009 at 12:10 PM

    Are you a stupid Brit?

    People and soldiers frequently sacrifice for a cause greater than themselves. This idiot didn't just say that he didn't want to fight in Afghanistan; he de facto sided with the Taliban against the much beloved ANA and elected GIRoA.

    The best armies have soldiers who think before they act; who take initiative based on their general guidence and later beg forgiveness if they make a mistake.

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  19. GuestJuly 30, 2009 at 12:36 AM

    Well said Jemmy

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  20. r.s.July 30, 2009 at 1:12 AM

    Great points, Jemmy. Thanks for writing this.

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  21. GuestAugust 29, 2009 at 1:11 PM

    WHAT AN UNBELIEVABLY ARROGANT ARSE , AS A FORMER 25 YEARS MEMBER OF THE BRITISH ARMED FORCES, WHILST i AGREE THAT THE BRITIISH GOVERNMET ARE ABSOLUTELY INDIFFENT TO THE PLIGHT OF THE MAJORITY OF THE WORLD AND AFGHAN POPULACE, HOW DARE YOU MALIGN THE VOLUNTARY ARMED FORCES OF THE BRITISH AND COMMENWEALTH NATIONS

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  22. JassimOctober 29, 2009 at 7:12 AM

    To Guest.

    Don't know what they teach you in the army (apart from illegal occupations and killing civilians in far away places, with the odd bit of rape and torture thrown in, oh and disappearances like Bagram, Uzbekistan and elsewhere) but it isn''t literacy. You should invest in a dictionary
    Oh, and while you are in the bookshop, get yourself a copy of the Nuremberg Principles. They are enlightening about illegal wars - or even actions which soldiers might feel to be illegal. Broadly they state that in even the latter it is a duty to refuse.

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  23. Adam (ex-soldier against the war)November 6, 2009 at 3:24 PM

    Your comments are neither educated or constructive. You do no justice to this site. I think its safe to say nobody believes torture or rape arfe taught in the British Army. i believe we should quite Afghanistan and I look forward to inteligent debate , something you are clearly incapable of. The Britsih army fights combatants, not like savages from the Jungerwee (Sudan) or the various Warbands that have always roamed Afghanistan.
    Maybe you shoul of but your name as Jism not Jassim as your comments display the same qualities, thick and emmulating from a dick.

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