By Paul Brodie
Any society is a whole of inter-related parts. We can usefully theorize these parts as an economic sphere, a kinship sphere, a political sphere and a community/culture sphere. Envisioning The Good Society is therefore the task of envisioning a set of desirable, liberatory and workable institutions in each of these spheres that create conditions amenable to the fullest satisfaction and development of diverse human potentials. Abstaining from proposing alternatives is only to guarantee that dominant and oppressive relations continue - precisely for want of structural alternatives.
Zcommunication
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
You'd be surprised how many similar accounts I have heard from stateside brothers...
ReplyDeleteWe stopped, and a white police officer approached. Andre got his license and motioned to me to get the registration from the glove box. When I opened it, a switch blade comb fell out. It was like the one the Fonz had on “Happy Days.” They were popular prizes at local fairs and carnivals at the time. The officer drew his gun. I froze. Then, realizing that it was just a comb, I told him so and pushed the button to make the comb pop up. I thought it was kind of funny. I was the only one. The officer grew irritated. He commanded me to “drop the weapon” and told Andre to exit the car. Andre insisted on knowing why we had been stopped. The officer gave a reason. It wasn’t true. Then he said something I will never forget: that if he wanted to, he could make us lie down in the middle of the road and shoot us in the back of the head and no one would say anything about it. Then he walked to his car and drove away.
Thanks again to Angry A.
White privilege, like any social phenomenon, is complex. In a white supremacist culture, all white people have privilege, whether or not they are overtly racist themselves. There are general patterns, but such privilege plays out differently depending on context and other aspects of one's identity (in my case, being male gives me other kinds of privilege). Rather than try to tell others how white privilege has played out in their lives, I talk about how it has affected me.
ReplyDeleteThe story about Harvard Professor Louis Gates getting arrested in his own house for being rude to a cop is getting a lot of coverage and it highlights how black and white people view these types of events. Most of the comments by white people say he should have been more polite to the cop. Comments from black people say they are sick and tired of being harrassed by the police. Even Obama said the police acted stupidly. However, Obama stressed that Gates was a 60 year old man who walks with a cane-but what he missed is that even a young black men who may not have a prestigious position has the right to enjoy the privacy of his home without having the police come in and look around-because there is a black guy in the house. Also, everyone, old, young, black, white, has the right to argue with a cop without the fear of being arrested for "disturbing the peace". If a cop can't handle an angry citizen without abusing his power, he should look for another job.
ReplyDeleteAlso, what a lot of white people don't realize is that getting arrested on a bogus charge, even if it can be cleaned off your record, is very traumatic and, at the very least is a major pain in the ass, and at worst can get you locked up for a long time.
Much ado about nothing. The cop was just doing his job responding to a possible B & E. Gates was insulted that HE, a black man and a professor at Harvard was being questioned, started yelling and whatever. Technically, the officer had the right to arrest for disorderly conduct, but quite frankly it was stupid. Once he saw the ID, and an obviously tired, frail man, he should have just backed off and said, Sorry for the confusion sir, I am just doing my job and looking out for your property. Have a good day.
ReplyDeleteWhen Gates said, 'You don't know who you are messing with" That was dumb, too. That was basically a threat.
They both acted foolishly.
Wisdom is leaqrning what to overlook.
-William James
Much ado about nothing. The cop was just doing his job responding to a possible B & E. Gates was insulted that HE, a black man and a professor at Harvard was being questioned, started yelling and whatever. Technically, the officer had the right to arrest for disorderly conduct, but quite frankly it was stupid. Once he saw the ID, and an obviously tired, frail man, he should have just backed off and said, Sorry for the confusion sir, I am just doing my job and looking out for your property. Have a good day.
ReplyDeleteWhen Gates said, 'You don't know who you are messing with" That was dumb, too. That was basically a threat.
They both acted foolishly.
Wisdom is learning what to overlook.
-William James
It's much ado about nothing if you consider the Bill of Rights nothing...or if you consider it nothing that a large segment of the population(black people)consider the police more of a threat than a help...or that special attention from police has caused a disproportionate amount of black people to be ensnared by the Justice system. Now, I know you will say that as long as the police technically follow the rules, then all is fair. But I can give you examples of the double standard that I experienced. When I was a teenager, I wasn't a bad kid, but I wasn't a goody-two-shoes either. One day, some friends and I left school grounds to get high. We went into some bushes on a neighbor's yard and were about to light up when a cop happenned to see us. I was sure we were going to be arrested. The cop didn't get out of his car and only asked what we were doing. I came up with some lame excuse like we were taking a short cut to a deli. The cop said ok, and everyone went on their way. Are you honestly telling me that you think if it was four black teenagers in the same situation that they wouldn't have been searched and arrested?...and the only reason the Gates story is making news is that it was a Harvard professor who was arrested on a bogus charge. Ordinary black people are treated rudely, unfairly, brutally, or illegally by the police everyday and it is not news...it's part of the landscape.
ReplyDeleteIt's much ado about nothing if you consider the Bill of Rights nothing...
ReplyDeleteDid you or did you not read my comment? I don't think so.
I did in fact read your comment. In fact I just re-read it. I still missed your concern about the Bill of Rights...and your concern about police abuse of power, especially when it concerns black people. But I didn't miss where you said yet another arrest of a black man on a bogus charge was much ado about nothing. And by the way, you didn't answer my question: do you think if it was four black teenagers caught trespassing in someone's bushes, would they have been treated differently than me and my friends were?
ReplyDeleteAnd by the way, you didn't answer my question: do you think if it was four black teenagers caught trespassing in someone's bushes, would they have been treated differently than me and my friends were?...which isn't a surprise because I can't remember a time you directly answered anything I asked you here.
ReplyDeletewhich isn't a surprise because I can't remember a time you directly answered anything I asked you here.
ReplyDeleteVery simple Joe, because I can't remember a time when you have asked a question without a strawman lurking inside of it. Your questions are not about the issue. Not really. It's about this sort of thing:
I did in fact read your comment. In fact I just re-read it. I still missed your concern about the Bill of Rights...and your concern about police abuse of power, especially when it concerns black people.
My much ado comment was about that particular incident, but of course you interpreted it to mean that I did not care about the Bill of Rights or the police abuse of power or the unfair treatment of Blacks. You deduced all of that from my comment and you wonder why I do not answer you?
Because there is a double standard and racial profiling and racism, does not automatically make that incident an example of any of those things.
As far as the four black teenagers, of course there is a good chance they would have been picked up.
I have an African American nephew . He is a teenager, a college student, and yes he has been stopped by the cops. The old DWB business. His father has had long talks with him about this very topic.
I stand by comment. Much ado about nothing. It did not have to happen. Both were acted in a less than wise manner.
which isn't a surprise because I can't remember a time you directly answered anything I asked you here.
ReplyDeleteVery simple Joe, because I can't remember a time when you have asked a question without a strawman lurking inside of it. Your questions are not about the issue. Not really. It's about this sort of thing:
I did in fact read your comment. In fact I just re-read it. I still missed your concern about the Bill of Rights...and your concern about police abuse of power, especially when it concerns black people.
My much ado comment was about that particular incident, but of course you interpreted it to mean that I did not care about the Bill of Rights or the police abuse of power or the unfair treatment of Blacks. You deduced all of that from my comment and you wonder why I do not answer you?
Because there is a double standard and racial profiling and racism, does not automatically make that incident an example of any of those things.
As far as the four black teenagers, of course there is a good chance they would have been picked up.
I have an African American nephew . He is a teenager, a college student, and yes he has been stopped by the cops. The old DWB business. His father has had long talks with him about this very topic.
I stand by comment. Much ado about nothing. It did not have to happen. Both acted in a less than wise manner.
which isn't a surprise because I can't remember a time you directly answered anything I asked you here.
ReplyDeleteVery simple Joe, because I can't remember a time when you have asked a question without a strawman lurking inside of it. Your questions are not about the issue. Not really. It's about this sort of thing:
I did in fact read your comment. In fact I just re-read it. I still missed your concern about the Bill of Rights...and your concern about police abuse of power, especially when it concerns black people.
My much ado comment was about that particular incident, but of course you interpreted it to mean that I did not care about the Bill of Rights or the police abuse of power or the unfair treatment of Blacks. You deduced all of that from my comment and you wonder why I do not answer you?
Because there is a double standard and racial profiling and racism, does not automatically make that incident an example of any of those things.
As far as the four black teenagers, of course there is a good chance they would have been picked up.
I have an African American nephew . He is a teenager, a college student, and yes he has been stopped by the cops. The old DWB business. His father has had long talks with him about this very topic.
I stand by my comment. Much ado about nothing. It did not have to happen. Both acted in a less than wise manner.
I'm always amused by these things that get so much publicity. Not so much because of the people involved, but because of the arguments that are thrown around. All the racists come out of the closet and expose their true identities.
ReplyDeleteIt reminds me of an incident (hardly) during my youth when I was arrested with a WASP (white anglo saxon pr.. from the US) who I had always thought was my friend (we went to highschool together). I had just hooked up with him for the first time after five or six years of not seeing each other (I went off and was getting my BA, while he got married). Apparently, he was going through a nasty divorce and I was unaware that when we went out that night, he had just fought with his wife. To make a long story short, he drank himself silly that night and made a scene on the street. We were both arrested (I couldn't leave him because we had gone to town in his car). I won't go into the details of the actual arrest, but what happened in the aftermath was astounding to me.
Take into consideration that this is Puerto Rico and the cops here are not as accountable as they are in the states, or at least they weren't back then...
This so called friend of mine started resisting the arrest and blurting out at the same time that he was American (from the US) and they had no right to treat him like that because his father was American and they were prominent people blah blah blah... etc. etc. etc. and to let him go. It didn't take long for the cops to get testly and they slammed him to the ground. He was so drunk that this didn't phase him in the least. He kept carrying on like an ass and screaming that Puerto Ricans can't treat Americans like this blah, blah, blah yakkity schmackitty. To make a long story short, they beat the living daylights out of him and I was getting scared. I tried to calm him down and when that didn't work, I pleaded with the cops to not hurt him anymore. He was bleeding profusely by then.
Do you know what he said then?
He started screaming at me: Oh yeah! When you people get together, you always gang up on us. Well you can't fool me, I know what you're up to! The implication was that since I was speaking (in Spanish) to the cop and he was having trouble understanding, that I was somehow conspiring with the cop against him. The story gets worse from there, but I am not going on. I think you get the picture ... and I certainly got the picture of what my "friend" deep down inside thought of us non-Americans.
And by the way, that quote I posted Today, 5:09:18 PM, was from a White man.
ReplyDeleteThis one incident clearly indicates the racist and inferior nature of all white people. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. :-D
ReplyDeleteMy take away is your friends are immature jerks. No shocker there.
Other than telling a story about a friend who turned out to be a jerk, I do not get your point? Jerks come in all colors and persuasions.
ReplyDeleteNo you are not my friend.
ReplyDeleteHere is another chapter of this never ending story:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.inpdum.org/williams.html
Noli me iudicare a tua ipsius ignorantia ordiens
ReplyDeleteWhat strikes me as weird about this is that Dr. Gates is this assimilated professional black person and everyone is up in arms that the police would roust a well dressed older dude like him. Like, is it okay if it happens, as I hear that it does on a daily basis, to a black man or woman or girl or boy who might wear baggies and a cap turned backwards? It's like the world accepts this but if the person attempts to live in white society (which, I'm sorry, it seems like Dr. Gates does), then, I guess, police should treat him like a white person, and that's what we really have an issue with.
ReplyDeleteJust that certain "events" serve as "triggers" to unmask peoples hidden feelings.
ReplyDeleteRight? ;)
Oh my.
ReplyDeleteYes, but Joe, the Supreme Court now says the police can kick your door down with impunity - they do not even have to knock anymore if they have a "suspicion." It is interesting the type of rulings that come up domestically when a war of choice breaks out -
ReplyDeleteBUSTING DOWN THE PEOPLE'S DOOR WITH IMPUNITY, I.E., DESTROYING THE 4TH AMENDMENT
http://notinhisname.blogdrive.com/archive/cm-06_cy-2006_m-06_d-18_y-2006_o-0.html
It has not been repealed or scaled back...
That does not stop these "law officers" Ann, here is a school 64 year old teacher, well lnown for his calm demeanor, in New Orleans who just asked an officer a question that got the treatment -
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryxlSKW6fls
Here is an interesting site that you can look at -
ReplyDeleteTASERED WHILE BLACK
http://taseredwhileblack.blogspot.com/
Okay vza, I don't know what this strawman bullshit is about; all I know is you always insult me personallly instead of answering my points. That type of behavior is what caused abraham to say all those rude things to you all the time. You are more rude than him, but you are sneaky about it.
ReplyDeleteMaybe this incident would be much ado about nothing if it was the only time some ignorant cop who wanted to teach some uppity nigger what happens if they step out of line. But it is not the only time-far from it. Police abuse is something that effects millions of Americans, especially black americans. I know your solution to any problem we face is to pretend it isn't there-but that only makes matters worse.
And by the way, Gates was in his own home and was allowed to act however he wanted. Period. The cop was a professional who should be able to deal with situations like this without making a bogus arrest. He should have apologized and left the home. Period. Let's say it was a dentist who wanted to teach a rude patient a lesson and refused to give novacaine? I guess you would say that was much ado about nothing also-unless it happenned to you.
Okay vza, I don't know what this strawman bullshit is about; all I know is you always insult me personallly instead of answering my points. That type of behavior is what caused abraham to say all those rude things to you all the time. You are more rude than him, but you are sneaky about it.
ReplyDeleteOkay vza, I don't know what this strawman bullshit is about; all I know is you always insult me personallly instead of answering my points. That type of behavior is what caused abraham to say all those rude things to you all the time. You are more rude than him, but you are sneaky about it.
ReplyDeleteYou basically imply that I don't care about the Bill of Rights and assorted other issues and I am insulting you?
Too much.
I guess you would say that was much ado about nothing also-unless it happenned to you.
I have had to prove my identity in my own home...TWICE and knew enough not to get belligerent with a cop who was only doing his job investigating a possible break-in.
Ms smarty pants marcatutu using latin again because he hasnt the courage to say it in english. We are so impressed by your display of hubris and cowardly spite, Marcatu.
ReplyDeleteMarcatu believes he can dictate to others how they should feel. A person's feelings are not really their own. A person should have feelings only if they are approved as apporpriate by society at large. Only certain feelings are "correct". In fact, in Marcatutu's strange world if one has "incorrect feelings" but acts "correctly", this is not acceptable. Meanwhile having "correct feelings" but acting incorrectly is perfectly acceptable,
Marcatus believes its his job to ferret out those who do not "feel correctly". And, as he has only feelings of love and admiration for white people, he expects the same in return....
Oh brother.
Vza, you already know this, but Joe is not worth your time or effort. He is utterly insufferable, intolerable, unbearable, and unendurable. He brings nothing to the table but simplistic and pendatic obersavations about "how the world should operate" under his self-righteous guidance, He knows zip.
ReplyDeletechi è causa del suo mal pianga se stesso.
ReplyDeleteIt will take some time before this type of thing is expunged from the American ethos. Demographics will be the great equalizer in the long run.
ReplyDeleteAuthor: Peggy McIntosh, Ph.D.
ReplyDeleteThe paper first describes daily ways in which the author - a white woman - experiences unearned advantage because of her skin color, draws parallels with other privilege systems of sex and sexuality, and analyzes unearned entitlement as a taboo subject in U.S. society
Apply it to your own experience, vza!
ReplyDeleteHow many times do men you're acquainted with let slip a sexist remark when "prompted" by a certain situation?
I'm sure there are many examples you could cite!
And please do!
Marcatu blames his failings on race. He ignores personality. He himself is clearly one of those people who few would choose to be around, regardless of his race, creed, or national origin. Its not race Marcatu, its because people find you personally loathesome.
ReplyDeleteIm so sorry to have to break this sad truth to you.
Marcatu stands ready as the thought and speech police! He and his ilk believe its up to them to decide what is correct to think and say.
ReplyDeleteGod. what a turd. *DONT_KNOW*
You basically imply that I don't care about the Bill of Rights and assorted other issues and I am insulting you?
ReplyDeleteWell since you say that a man can be arrested in his own home for being rude to a cop is much ado about nothing-that leads me to believe you don't care a whole hell of a lot about the Bill of Rights. To me, that cop's behavior was a clear cut violation of Gates' rights. The whole point of the Bill of Rights is that you can go about your business without having a government agent search your house without a warrant or lock you up if you did not break the law....What I find so insulting is the way you always say that I my arguments are not worthy of your time to respond to-when in fact you do not have a response. You find it easier to dismiss me as a person than to use your mind to answer them. This may surprise you, but when I ask you things here, I am interested in what you will say, I'm not trying to trap you into saying something dumb.
<table class="js-singleCommentBodyT" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%">
<tbody>
<tr style="vertical-align: top;">
<td style="padding-bottom: 8px;" colspan="2">
<div class="js-singleCommentText">
I have had to prove my identity in my own home...TWICE and knew enough not to get belligerent with a cop who was only doing his job investigating a possible break-in.</div>
</td>
<td class="js-singleCommentAvatarCell" rowspan="2" width="100"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
That wasn't where the problem is. Gates identified himself and wanted to be left alone. He didn't want his house searched. There could be any number of reasons why he didn't want it. Maybe he was tired from his trip. Maybe he had his mistress over. Maybe he just doesn't like cops. It is not his duty-or anyone else's to allow the police to search their home without a warrant-or to explain why he doesn't want them in his home. But I am interested-did the police rudely demand to search your home in those incidents? Were you arrested during those incidents? If not, then you helped prove my point about the double standard that black people are so pissed off about.
That was me, obviously...haloscan didn't remember my nick.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you insist on answering when I am not directing my posts to you? Now why do I not engage you in conversation? Perhaps it is because you can't seem to stray too far from your predisposition towards flinging filth, eh potty mouth?
ReplyDeleteWhen one's thoughts are as bankrupt as yours, their only recourse is to fling filth.
What I find so insulting is the way you always say that I my arguments are not worthy of your time to respond to-when in fact you do not have a response. You find it easier to dismiss me as a person than to use your mind to answer them. This may surprise you, but when I ask you things here, I am interested in what you will say, I'm not trying to trap you into saying something dumb.
ReplyDeleteI don't like my words twisted to suit your notions. That's all. You have done this time and time again. I always have a response...it's just that sometimes I do not choose to give it after I am treated to your misrepresentation of my words.
I can say that the incident was much ado about nothing and still believe in the Bill of Rights. I can consider the incident stupid at the same time I am aware that people of color are often racially profiled or unjustly treated. My original comment quite clearly stated I thought both Crowley and Gates acted stupidly. Both Crowley and Gates made much ado about nothing. According to the police department, Crowley followed procedure. Just because he COULD arrest Gates for disorderly conduct does not mean he SHOULD have done so. And just because Gates thought it was racially motivated does not make it so.
That wasn't where the problem is. Gates identified himself and wanted to be left alone. He didn't want his house searched.
ReplyDeleteWhere have you read that the officer wanted to search his home?
Were you arrested during those incidents? If not, then you helped prove my point about the double standard that black people are so pissed off about.
ReplyDeleteI was not, but I'll bet if I had started mouthing off and acting crazy, I might have. The police in my area were famous for not taking any b.s. from ANYBODY. Should people be arrested for mouthing off to a cop? No. But
we are talking about human beings here, Joe.
Sorry, the fact that I was not arrested does not prove your point at all.
Mara, do not worry, this is obviously a case of projection on the part of fleming...lol :)
ReplyDeleteFleming, please. Don't make this personal. Mara strikes me as smart and thoughtful. That doesn't make him automatically right on issues; but it does earn him a little respect.
ReplyDeleteThe early accounts of the case said that after
ReplyDeleteGates showed his i.d., the cop wanted to search the home to see if anyone else was in the house. The official reason was he wanted to do it for Gates' safety. Of course, there could be other reasons: such as, even with the Harvard i.d., the cop couldn't believe that a black guy had any business in such a nice house-or perhaps, it was one way to punish Gates for not being respectful...But even if that was just a rumor that found its way into print, the cop's behavior was inexcusable. Cops deal with irate citizens all the time-everyone who deals with the public does, but cops especially. It is their job to deal with the results of every injustice in our society. It's a tough job and if you can't do without locking up people who get on your nerves(or beating, tasing or shooting them), then you better get another job. Gates was totally within his rights to yell at the cop. The cop was out of line, at the very least, for arresting him. The right to confront government authority (non-violently) is at the core of any free society. Without that right, any other rights they say we have are meaningless...Oh and one more thing about the Gates case, if Gates had been a poor black guy instead of a celebrity-scholar, he would still be locked up, he would have likely lost his job, and possibly be facing a prison sentence.
Mara, I think that in California at least, whites don't have an advantage. If anything, educated Asians have an advantage over whites. I also don't see a lot of discrimination agianst educated Latinos. For one thing, it is hard to tell them apart from Southern Europeans. The most overt racism in California is probably Latino discrimination against blacks. {In America as a whole, about a quarter of all 1st graders are Latino; however a large majority in California are Latino.}
ReplyDeleteMara, how would you rate America's treatment of minorities and immigrants compared to other countries. I have heard that racism is a more serious challenge in Latin American countries.
Au contraire, my dear V. These little comments we make here reveal more about our personalities than we want to admit.
ReplyDeleteMarcaru is one of those people who walks around with a huge chip on their shoulder. He is not a guy anybody wants to have a beer with - unless they are unsufferable jackasses like his "friend". You know, like attracts like....
Fleming, please don't insult Mara. You cannot always oblige, but you can always speak obligingly. Notice how polite and classy VZA, TGIA, Molly, Mojo and Mara are.
ReplyDeleteMara, that "friend" was a jerk. Something like that has never happened to me. I think this "friend" was an outlier. You can't blame all Americans for one jerk.
Im sure the police would be fascinated to hear from Joe how they should do their jobs. With all those years of experience on the force, no doubt he can speak with great authority....LOL
ReplyDeleteSo Joe, would a poor black guy be able to afford the house Gates lives in? Definitely not. Thus, he would have been breaking and entering. Last time I checked that was stilll illegal, no matter your demographics. Or maybe we should just declare a moratorium on arresting "people of color" until the jails are filled up with whiteys, huh? You know, just to even things out. LOL
Dearest Marcatutu, nothing is as filthy as the tripe that spills from your keyboard. Im just trying to keep up. :)
ReplyDeleteMara, these cases are very rare. In the younger generation, they are far rarer than they are in the older generation.
ReplyDeleteI guess we just see this issue differently. I find it troubling that you are willing to accept people being afraid to act legally because a cop may choose to abuse his power if he feels like it. People should not be afraid of the government. Yeah, cops are human, but they are also professionals and should conduct themselves as such. I consider people being afraid of the police a problem worth addressing. Maybe the answer is more oversight or better training or higher salaries to attract a wider range of recruits. Or maybe the big problem is that we send police to solve problems that can't be solved by police: like drug addiction or corporations exploiting cheap labor overseas and turning our cities into combat zones and concentration camps for poor people.
ReplyDeleteHey fleming old pal: long time no see...not long enough as far as I am concerned. Hey, I always told tgia banning people hurts the blog, so I'm partially responsible for you being permitted to vomit your nonsense here. You're welcome.
ReplyDeleteI was talking about a poor black guy who didn't want cops looking around his house in a similar situation, not a poor black guy being caught in Gates' home...but you knew that.
Oh yeah, the public does have a say in how police do their job. Personally, I would defer to their judgment as long as they obey the law themselves and don't use their power to go after people who they personally have a problem with.
vza:
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I am not trying to twist your words. What I do is look at all the implications of a position you hold. It is those hidden implications-and unseen consequences- that end up fucking up even well intentioned ideas.
Wonderful.
ReplyDeleteIf you look carefully at my comments, you will notice that I didn't blame all Americans (or all WASPS) for that. In fact, much of what I was quoting in my so-called "comments" above were from white folks; very perceptible white folks, I might add. You are confusing my comments with what potty-mouth is desperately trying to superimpose on me. His friend, (further) up the thread, said something which is actually very applicable as a response to Mr. Potty Mouth:
ReplyDeleteI don't like my words twisted to suit your notions. That's all. You have done this time and time again. I always have a response...it's just that sometimes I do not choose to give it after I am treated to your misrepresentation of my words.
I couldn't have said it better. Kudos to vza!!!!
OK, enough! Time to get off this merry-go-round! 8-)
errata - 'perceptive'
ReplyDeletePretty soon, we will all be so mixed up (racially) that nobody will be able to tell the difference! :-D
ReplyDeleteI'm not as sanguine as you are. Rush Limbaugh still has something of a constituency in the US.
ReplyDeleteThis is true, and if another "9-11" were to have happened soon after the first one, ... well I certainly don't have to tell YOU what might have ensued! I can assure you that certain posters on the comments section here would be calling for the internment of "middle-eastern looking people".
ReplyDeletefleming's comment was deleted!!
ReplyDeleteAu contraire, my dear V. These little comments we make here reveal more about our personalities than we want to admit.
ReplyDelete--------------------
Absolutely! That's how I discovered the asshole you really are!!
Potty mouth (I like this one!) can't help it. He's been banned many times for it yet he persists in thinking that it was for his "dissenting views"!!
ReplyDeleteFleming, please. Don't make this personal.
ReplyDelete-------------------
Why do you think he was named Potty mouth? The guy can't help it. He's been banned many times for it yet he persists in thinking that it was for his "dissenting views"!!
Fleming, please. Don't make this personal.
ReplyDelete-------------------
Why do you think he was named Potty mouth, anand? The guy can't help it. He's been banned many times for it yet he persists in thinking that it was for his "dissenting views"!!
You should have left it.
ReplyDeleteGreat job Mullah TGIA! Khomeni, Ahdminijad and their Iranian cleric buddies salute your efforts in ridding the world of what cannot be tolerarted by all people of superior morality: dissenting views!!!!!! U da Man!!! LOL
ReplyDeletefleming
ReplyDeleteHave you been having too many beers? For godsake, why don't you just state your views and opinions and let people state their own..Sheesh! What an unbearable asshole!!
Wait until the next time the cops are called and respond timidly because they are worried about being called "racist". If there is a real crime in progress the racist whiteys will then be charged with not "caring" sufficiently about the fate of black vicitms.
ReplyDeleteWhitey just cant get it right, huh? Damn we suck as a people. Zimbabwe is the model for all those who desire true justice in the world, no doubt.
The word "turd" is considered too crude for this blog?
ReplyDeleteIm reminded of the old Saturday Night Live skit where Eddie Murphy "whitened" himself and then went out in public and was surprised to find himself the beneficiary of many secret benefits. It was a "mocumentary". HAHA
ReplyDeleteSorry Maracatu, as the only "white dude" on this blog I have some sad truth for you. Yea, we probably prefer our own company, but its mostly a cultural thing. In that Im much more likely to hang out with a black guy with whom Ive worked or gone to school with than a white guy plumber. Nothing inherently evil about it.
Im sorry you feel you must demean the accomplishments of whites as if they only do well as the result of some sort of secret "whitey favoritism".
Its just so absurd. When you have actually been a white person then perhaps you can tell us all what it is like. Until then why dont you stick to describing the experiences of your own people.
Flemming, please! You are better than this.
ReplyDeleteWhat is this "your people" stuff? All Americans are Americans.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I find really interesting about this exchange is that there is the assumption that "cops" need to exist, and just a sort of interesting ignorance of where these standing armies come from and what their major function is -
ReplyDeletehttp://gnn.tv/videos/viewer.php?id=11&n=1
If you do not know origins you will never grasp actions
Really, VZA, it's pretty obvious why Gates acted the way he did. It's because he's spent his whole life studying American racism and he's sick and tired of it. Most Black men would not have acted that way, because they would be too scared.
ReplyDeleteI'm doing my part to hasten that, Mara. ;)
ReplyDeleteIn a perfect world, we would not need police, armies, or intelligence services. We do not live in that perfect world nor will we ever. Why waste time on somethng that simply will not be?
ReplyDeleteAnand, Maracutu has been speaking to the experience of "white people" with great authority in this thread. Even when he quotes others, he does so only when it aligns with his perspective. He makes an un-balanced argument that demeans white people.
ReplyDeleteIts as if we are the only ones that give favor to their own. Did you know that Obama got 96% plus of the black vote Marcatu? Do you realize Obama got the largest share of white votes of any democrat going back to 1976? Gee, that sounds like an awful lot of black people made their vote primarily on the basis of skin color. But I guess its ok when blacks do it, huh?
Hmmm...no sticking of posts, lets try this again.
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting in all of this posting that no one mentions the origins of the police force, and why we have these standing armies in the country. If you never ask the question of origin you will never find out the reason for certain actions -
http://gnn.tv/videos/viewer.php?id=11&n=1
I mean, all you have to do is put several things together to get a "swift" response - "black, upscale white neighborhood." Some individuals in certain neighborhoods of color can call all day for a response and get zero, or extremely slow response. That is because there is little to no property, and we know that "property is always more important than people," right? Or should I say certain types of people with property? Listen to this and understand more -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuU7bEqKcLk
Very little if anything has changed, beneath the surfece, plenty of surface change.
Why waste time trying to stop child abuse? There will always be child abuse...
ReplyDeleteThough of course cops are necessary.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad they caught the guy who broke into my neighbors apartment.
ReplyDeleteGood grief, this is all too silly. I don't like all this name calling and fleming knows how I feel about it and we agreed to disagree...but you guys getting all upset about fleming is really a bit laughable when you consider how viciously anand is spoken to and ridiculed on a regular basis! Not to mention what I have been called! Not once has anand ever responded in kind! If you are all going to get upset about this stuff, at least be consistent! In a sense, fleming is right about the dissenting views because you do not seem to mind obnoxious words if they are said by people you agree with! Either ignore it all or delete it all.
ReplyDeleteHmmm...no sticking of posts, lets try this again.
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting in all of this posting that no one mentions the origins of the police force, and why we have these standing armies in the country. They are like standing armies in some neighborhoods because they are trying to protect the haves from the have nots, so it is like a prison without bars - because they don't want those people to get out of there and steal something, because their family might be destitute or hungry. If you never ask the question of origin you will never find out the reason for certain actions -
http://gnn.tv/videos/viewer.php?id=11&n=1
I mean, all you have to do is put several things together to get a "swift" response - "black, upscale white neighborhood." Some individuals in certain neighborhoods of color can call all day for a response and get zero, or extremely slow response. That is because there is little to no property, and we know that "property is always more important than people," right? Or should I say certain types of people with property? Listen to this and understand more -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuU7bEqKcLk
Very little if anything has changed, beneath the surface, plenty of surface change.
So is my family!
ReplyDeleteMolly, I see this differently. Two men tried to out macho each other. Not a good thing.
ReplyDeleteGates should have been respectful, and thanked the police officer for trying to protect his home. That would have defused the situation. Apparently, after Gates provided evidence that he owned the home, the cop was leaving. Gates followed him; was angry, and said a bunch of stuff I am sure he now regrets. The Cop got hot. They both got into a male machismo showdown.
I have a lot of respect for the badge, and those who risk their lives for all of us. I often tell cops that. Part of the issue, I think, is that some highly educated people think they are better than blue color cops. I have seen it, and it bothers me. Cops should be treated with respect and gratitude, like how they were after 9/11. Firemen and civil servants in general should also be treated with respect and gratitude.
There are few types of arrogance that bother me more than intellectual arrogance; the arrogance of the academically accomplished.
"When I was but a youth" I used my 12 gauge shotgun (and bare chest) to chase an uninivited BLACK MAN out of my parent's house at 2 in the morning. I now recognize it was very racist of me to assume he was doing something wrong as he could have just been "confused". :)
ReplyDeleteI just happened to wake up and see him loading up the family mercedes with all the electronic gear. Keys were in the ignition. He was making one last trip into the house to pick up the connecting wires. I confronted him by threatening to blow his motherf---ing head off, and he ran out a door I did not realize was open.
This is the kind of stuff that happens in the real world. Race has nothing to do with it.
:-P :-D 8-)
ReplyDeleteHmmm...no sticking of posts, lets try this again.
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting in all of this posting that no one mentions the origins of the police force, and why we have these standing armies in the country. They are like standing armies in some neighborhoods in order to protect the haves from the have nots, so it is like a prison without bars - because they don't want those people to get out of there and steal something, because their family might be destitute or hungry. If you never ask the question of origin you will never find out the reason for certain actions -
http://gnn.tv/videos/viewer.php?id=11&n=1
I mean, all you have to do is put several things together to get a "swift" response - "black, upscale white neighborhood." Some individuals in certain neighborhoods of color can call all day for a response and get zero, or extremely slow response. That is because there is little to no property, they are there just to watch the the disinfranchised not help them, and we know that "property is always more important than people," right? Or should I say certain types of people with property? Listen to this and understand more -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuU7bEqKcLk
Very little if anything has changed, beneath the surface, plenty of surface change.
Flemming, gently explain to him why Mara's own life experience are not representative of the large majority of Americans.
ReplyDeleteIn any case, Flemming, racism is a problem in America. Racism is a problem with Americans who are white. The fact that there are also black, Latino and Asian racists in America does not excuse white racism. {I don't think that whites are more racist than Latinos or Asians.}
Let me tell you a story. An egyptian in my school was beaten up in 1991 for being an AY-RAB supporter of Saddam. This was despite the fact that at that very moment, 45,000 Egyptian troops were fighting shoulder to shoulder alongside Americans. It was disgusting. I am sure Flemming, that you have seen many examples in your life time of racism that disgusted you.
It is important to emphasize that these cases are rare; but that makes them no less disgusting. Speak the truth and let the truth set you free.
<h1>Great piece with much food for thought.
ReplyDelete</h1>
<h1>Obama, Gates and the American Black Man</h1>
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/opinion/26loury.html?ref=instapundit
<table class="js-singleCommentBodyT" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%">
ReplyDelete<tbody>
<tr style="vertical-align: top;">
<td style="padding-bottom: 8px;" colspan="2">
<div class="js-singleCommentText">Great piece with much food for thought.</div>
<div class="js-singleCommentText">
Obama, Gates and the American Black Man
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/opinion/26loury.html?ref=instapundit</div>
</td>
<td class="js-singleCommentAvatarCell" rowspan="2" width="100">
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
Great piece with much food for thought
ReplyDeleteObama, Gates and the American Black Man
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/opinion/26loury.html?ref=instapundit
So what am I saying, if Huey can know that at his age and I can know it at mine, than obviously you have been listening to the wrong people. That is because this is reality folks, plain and simple. You have been living in a fantasy land created for you by the propaganda posse. Hell, you may not want to know what reality is, and than the problem is yours not mine -
ReplyDeleteNOT LAW AND ORDER, ORDER AND LAW
http://notinhisname.blogdrive.com/archive/cm-02_cy-2007_m-02_d-15_y-2007_o-0.html
The word "order" in the phrase has classically been present as "order as opposed to chaos," that is, keeping things under control. However, this is not the true meaning of the word "order" in the phrase, "order" = the way society is structured. The word "law" is meant to mean some neutral standard or set of rules applied to all. However, even a cursory perusal of the law (see the previous post on the rule of law) means a legal system set up to the benefit of the few, which hide behind the phrase the "rule of law" in order to work their will with impunity.
This brings us to the specifics of how society is structured, that is how the United States has in the past and presently functions. We not only have a paternalistic order, but a hierarchical order, one that is separated by a moneyed and propertied class which uses the so-called law to preserve this present order. It is an order which uses all of societies instruments, both forensic and implied, by education which deeply influences definitions, giving it a color of authenticity - legitimacy.
Where is home? We Gotta Live Together
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WodowVx4dec
Where is home? We Gotta Live Together
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WodowVx4dec
Listen to the repetivie plea of "home" by Jimmi, and the solo afterwards, and you will get the idea
Where is home? We Gotta Live Together
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WodowVx4dec
Listen to the repetivie plea of "home" by Jimi, and the solo afterwards, and you will get the idea
So true vza, so true. You have spoken truth to power yet again. Kudos!
ReplyDeleteSorry for the name calling. Sometimes I just cant control myself! :-P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQfNWySIH50
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYpRIGTpPls
ReplyDeleteWith all due respect, Joe..what the hell does that mean?
ReplyDeleteGerat guitar work!
ReplyDeleteGreat guitar work!
ReplyDeleteThis one incident clearly indicates the racist and inferior nature of all white people. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
ReplyDelete----------------
No asshole... No one brought anything like this to attention.
vza
ReplyDeleteI don't have to act wisely when I don't feel like. On the other hand, what I do is that I look at the whole person's contributions and efforts to bring something here, to engage in a real and genuine debate and if that's what's he's been doing all along then one has to be tolerated for out of control moments and occas . V is one such person. I don't like it when he uses crude language whather towards you or taward anand
vza
ReplyDeleteLike everyone else here, I don't have to act wisely when I don't feel like it. On the other hand, what I do is that I look at the whole person's contributions and efforts to bring something to the blog, to engage in a real and genuine debate about issues and the like, and if that's what's he's been doing all along then one has to be tolerated for out of control moments . V is one such person. I don't like it when he uses crude language whether towards you or towards anand but I look at the bigger picture of his contributions and comments. . Maracatu and Joe are civil and their contributions cannot be denied and it's the same with you. But when it comes to fleming there's none of it. He acts like a sniper who cannot allow anyone a single move..He never or hardly ever comments on articles and news or issues at hand but waits until someone "dares" making a move he doesn't approve of whicjh is always the case anyway and goes berserk at the first occasion. His caricatures of one's views are ridiculously childish to say the least. I'm not saying he can't do any better, I'm pretty sure he can but the problem is in the attitude.
vza
ReplyDeleteLike everyone else here, I don't have to act wisely when I don't feel like it. On the other hand, what I do is that I look at the whole person's contributions and efforts to bring something to the blog, to engage in a real and genuine debate about issues and the like, and if that's what's he's been doing all along then one has to be tolerated for out of control moments . V is one such person. I don't like it when he uses crude language whether towards you or towards anand but I look at the bigger picture of his contributions and comments. . Maracatu and Joe are civil and their contributions cannot be denied and it's the same with you. But when it comes to fleming there's none of it. He acts like a sniper who cannot allow anyone a single move..He never or hardly ever comments on articles and news or issues at hand but waits until someone "dares" making a move he doesn't approve of whicjh is always the case anyway and goes berserk at the first occasion. His caricatures of one's views are ridiculously childish to say the least. Provocative and often of a personal nature with no regard to what the other person really said or stated. I'm not saying he can't do any better, I've seen him in rare occasion when he did and it was great . I'm pretty sure he can but the problem is in this grotesque, infantile, macho, my-dick-is-bigger-than-yours attitude!! Exhausting!
sure
ReplyDeleteMaybe...
ReplyDeleteWhen all is said and done, it is your blog and you make the calls, but I thank you for your response.
ReplyDeleteYes, and that's my point. They will probably always be necessary precisely because there will always be child abuse, murders, theft, etc. I think we should always strive for a more perfect world but some things are so far out of the realm of possibility, like pigs flying, that I do not waste time even theorizing about it.
ReplyDeleteThink of him as our own resident Pat Buchanan!
ReplyDeleteMara, I have never heard Pat Buchanan express views the way Flemming does. Flemming (like Abraham and many others) sometimes seems to write things that he wants to offend others. In fact, I don't think Flemming really means some of the hurtful things he writes.
ReplyDeleteVZA, you are very sweet to defend Flemming. I am sure you are sweet to almost everyone in real life. But Flemming really is different from most. He isn't as bad as Abraham and some others, but that is really not much of a compliment.
Flemming, I am sorry this happened to you. But remember that such things are far more rare now. Crime in America fell dramatically in the 1980s, 1990s and 2000s. New York use to have 10 to 12 violent deaths a day in the 1980s versus an average of 1 death a day in recent years.
ReplyDeleteOne idiot invading your house represents one idiot; not the rest of America.
The event happened in the early 90's, Anand.
ReplyDeleteI am not looking for sympathy. What I am saying is that anyone who entered our house would been "greeted" the same way. No matter their color.
To blame my gun toting response on race would be abusrd. An aggressive response does not imply racism even if people of different races are involved.
Two deputies were killed today in the act of serving a warrant. This is generally not considered a life threating activity. Anyone not a policeman tryng to second guess police responses is being a pretentious jackass. Be like me after the fact trying to tell a quaterback what play he should have run. What a joke.
Pat Buchanan and I are nothing alike. Im more of a Newt G, Monica Crowley type. Now you're talking!
ReplyDeleteAlso, I have a personal connection with Newt through a close family member of his. Isnt that just awful? :)
We also know this was the case, your robbery fleming, because he had all the opportunities you had, but shunned them - being the lazy black ass that he was. Second, we all know how they are "all thieves and inherently violent." Kiss my ass fleming
ReplyDeleteI never had the chance to "get to know" our robber so I cant comment on his work ethic. As far as violence goes, when someone is in YOUR house, uninvited, at 2 in the morning and taking what is not his to take, how would you respond V? With sweets and flowers?
ReplyDeleteDoes a rapist "born ugly" get an excuse because he wasnt blessed with handsomeness?
Of course you, on the other hand, assume the robber was NOT lazy. You dont know. And he was clearly a thief, that is not disputable.
Perhaps I should have instead acted as an anarchist. Rather than relying on the pro-elite police to capture him I should have just run him down myself and blown him away. THAT is what anarchy endorses, right? People taking responsibility for their own actions without govt interference.
Ill pass on the ass kissing.
I never had the chance to "get to know" our robber so I cant comment on his work ethic.
ReplyDeleteHilarious!