Saturday, August 8, 2009

According the the CIA, Israel account balance is +$1,893,000,000 while US balance is -$568,800,000,000 , yet Israel is the country who benefits the most of US foreign aid, plus another approved $30 billion over the next ten years.
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139 comments:

  1. flemingAugust 8, 2009 at 2:18 PM

    Exactly Molly.  $3 billion a year is next to nothing in current account terms. 

    Do you think any american agrees 100% with every dime spent by the govt?  Hardly. 

    It souds like you are trying to "tattle-tale" (sp?) on Israel.  As if this will be some troublesome revelation to americans and they will revolt.  Again: Hardly. 

    Try attending some of the current "Town Halls" where Health Care reform is being discussed.  You will find plenty of passion there!! LOL

    ReplyDelete
  2. vAugust 8, 2009 at 3:11 PM

    Yeah, go there where you can listen to dumb shits (town halls) who are persuaded by idiots like Rush and Fox News.  They should shut these idiots down

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  3. flemingAugust 8, 2009 at 3:34 PM

    You are so predictable V.  So, only those with whom you are in agreement are allowed their protest rights?  Others should be "shut down" by the same govt you so love to hate.  Do you not see the total inconsistency???  You would make a great dictator.  LOL

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  4. anandAugust 8, 2009 at 4:11 PM

    Fleming, shouldn't the US phase out all aid to Israel? What does the US get out of it? Israel is a rich country for crying out load, with a booming technology and Venture Capital sector. Why should Israel get US aid over poor countries in Africa?

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  5. GuestAugust 8, 2009 at 4:54 PM

    I love how some people say 3 billion dollars is nest to nothing. I live in one of the major American cities, and there is a budget crisis because of a shortfall of a fraction of that $3 billion. Unless there is a raise in the sales tax(which will hurt poor people the hardest and small businesses next hardest), ALL libraries will be closed, ALL rec centers will be closed, %15 of police and fire fighters, and trash pick up will be only twice a month. How about sending some of that nothing this way....But to be perfectly honest, when they announced the budget cuts, I didn't thing of Israel first...I thought of Donald Trump, George Soros, Warren Buffet, Bill Gates...any one of those mother fuckers could write a check and solve the crisis...and they wouldn't suffer in the least. Instead, they expect us to come with our hat in our hand and say, "Please Mr. rich man, open a Wal Mart in our city and we will work for next to nothing and we won't even tax you."

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  6. JoeAugust 8, 2009 at 5:17 PM

    That was me..Haloscan didn't remember me.

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  7. flemingAugust 8, 2009 at 5:26 PM

    Joe the commie.  Not a shocker. 

    $3 billion of course is a lot to an individual.  But what are you complaining about Joe?  Dont you know that top 5% of US wage earners already pay 50% of US taxes?  Or that the top 10% pay 68%?  I mean jeez Joe, the tax code is already highly "progressive".  How much more do you want to take? 

    Fortunately Joe, your redistributive dreams are not going to come true.  The town halls are clear evidence that your philosophy of "to each according to their need, from each according to their ability" is not embraced by the vast majority of the USA.  Too bad for you and your Stalin loving buddies. LOL

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  8. thankgodimatheistAugust 8, 2009 at 5:40 PM

    <span>Joe the commie.</span>
    ------------
    How can one argue with this?

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  9. thankgodimatheistAugust 8, 2009 at 5:41 PM

    -----------
    <span><span>Joe the commie.</span> 
    ------------ 
    How can one argue with this?</span>

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  10. thankgodimatheistAugust 8, 2009 at 6:02 PM

    ----------
    <span>Joe the commie.</span>
    ---------------
    Get your gun fleming..Shoot before he gets a chance to take your money and eat your kids!

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  11. thankgodimatheistAugust 8, 2009 at 6:08 PM

    <span><span>Joe the commie.</span> 
    --------------- 
    Shoot the fucker fleming,  before he gets a chance to take your money and eat your kids!</span>

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  12. JoeAugust 8, 2009 at 6:09 PM

    Fleming has no problem with government handouts-as long as the money is going to killing people-as evidenced by his support of US aid to Israel.

    And where in my post did I endorse Communism? All I did was mention a factual situation. Why do I have to be a Communist to point out that the super rich are to greedy. A Christian could say the same thing. 

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  13. vzaAugust 8, 2009 at 6:31 PM

    <span> They should shut these idiots down</span>

    This simple statement reveals so much. This is why the useful idiots will weep for a fanatic locked up at Guantanamo and say NOTHING about the librarians, writers, and artists locked up in Cuba!

    Now, now v.....remember, "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism!"

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  14. vAugust 8, 2009 at 7:07 PM

    I guess vza and fleming do not know the difference between dissent and a fascist mob, which does not surprise me in the least.  Ignorance breeds ignorance, and these two are at their apex.

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  15. vAugust 8, 2009 at 7:15 PM

    Hey, jackass fleming, there has ALREADY been a redistribution of wealth upwards, you dumb shit.  So, instead of going after plans to ease the pain, why don't you go after who is eating the trillions of dollars - your gods, your capitalist at the top of the foodchain motherfuckers.  I swear you are the most stupid thing that walks the face of the earth, for all of your bragging about knowledge you and your kind are the lowest form of life among humanity - the fat around the gut of an engorged elite, and as dumb as shit. Why don't you go to a town hall meeting, you belong there among the other idiots.

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  16. vAugust 8, 2009 at 7:19 PM

    Well Joe. fleming is a dupe who has swallowed whole a common line.  He would rather follow the direction of an elite to go after someone assisting while they eat his own mother.  It is so incredibly stupid it is almost beyond description.

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  17. vAugust 8, 2009 at 7:21 PM

    It must be that invisible hand inserted up his ass working him like a sock puppet.

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  18. thankgodimatheistAugust 8, 2009 at 7:31 PM

    ----------
    <span>And where in my post did I endorse Communism?</span>
    ------------
    You don't have to, joe!!

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  19. vzaAugust 8, 2009 at 7:38 PM

    <span>fascist mob</span>


    :-D You are tooo funny!

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  20. vzaAugust 8, 2009 at 7:39 PM

    I am waiting with bated breath for the next one....capitalist running dogs, perhaps?

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  21. vAugust 8, 2009 at 7:54 PM

    In this type of crucible in the US you are going to have to reactions, or groups - those who realize a complete systemic change is necessary and will include all, and the fascist crew that listens to the voice of those who brought us this disaster in the first place. Those who just want to maintain their enclave of monopoly, and those that understand that this type of hording with privilege is no longer viable.

    In essence,  you do not want this fascist horde to be anywhere near power,  either local or on a national or international scale.  If you let them near any power it will not only be more of the same it will get hundreds of times worse.

    Above I am accused of supporting Obama when I have attacked what he is doing - I am proposing nothing of the sort, I am saying the shell of this government is quite immaterial, it is merely the conduit for the elite, and it is dealing in mere placation techniques as it protects the rear of who it really serves.  However, one thing is sure,  you do not want the town hall dupes (equal ignorants) anywhere near power, it is like having a mad mob in control.

    What I am proposing is something completely different, and if the truth be told it makes the moneyed elite shake in their boots.  I am proposing the power of the state in the hands of the people through equitable means.  The entire dismantling of empire which serves nothing but the few, in fact, an entire new world order. Which will replicate the same process all over the world, removing these private fiefdoms.

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  22. vzaAugust 8, 2009 at 8:00 PM

    As far as Israel's aid is concerned...end it... along with aid to Egypt, Pakistan and the rest of the corrupt regimes. End it all. I see no good coming from any of it. How much actually benefits the people of the countries?  The government is throwing our money away when our states are facing huge budget cuts in essential programs. 500 jobs were cut in our school system. Class sizes are increasing, art and music classes have been cut, and we are helping to fund and perpetuate greed, corruption, stupidity, and fundamentalism...and that includes Israel!  

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  23. vAugust 8, 2009 at 8:01 PM

    <span>In this type of crucible in the US you are going to have two reactions, or groups - those who realize a complete systemic change is necessary and will include all, and the fascist crew that listens to the voice of those who brought us this disaster in the first place. Those who just want to maintain their enclave of monopoly, and those that understand that this type of hording with privilege is no longer viable.  
     
    In essence,  you do not want this fascist horde to be anywhere near power,  either local or on a national or international scale.  If you let them near any power it will not only be more of the same it will get hundreds of times worse.  
     
    Above I am accused of supporting Obama when I have attacked what he is doing - I am proposing nothing of the sort, I am saying the shell of this government is quite immaterial, it is merely the conduit for the elite, and it is dealing in mere placation techniques as it protects the rear of who it really serves.  However, one thing is sure,  you do not want the town hall dupes (equal ignorants) anywhere near power, it is like having a mad mob in control.  
     
    What I am proposing is something completely different, and if the truth be told it makes the moneyed elite shake in their boots.  I am proposing the power of the state in the hands of the people through equitable means.  The entire dismantling of empire which serves nothing but the few, in fact, an entire new world order. Which will replicate the same process all over the world, removing these private fiefdoms.</span>

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  24. flemingAugust 8, 2009 at 8:08 PM

    We have heard it all a million times, V.  Yet you still cannot provide any specifcs.  Its like telling someone to burn down their beautiful, modern house because you are going to build a better one.  What exactly it will look like, how it will work, all this is completely unknown.  Just that it will, someway, somehow, be "better".  That is what is known as a "very tough sell".  LOL

    The reason you are a commie, Joe, is because you have communist ideas.  You want to redistribute wealth, the rich are "too greedy" blah blah.  Could be straight from the manifesto.  No doubt Castro would love your work. 

    V, you are so out there, so in the freakish extreme, its really quite entertaining to read your rants.  Sure, tear it all down, start over, a new world order, kill the elite "few" etc etc etc.  Meanwhile, you have an audience of 12.  Good luck! :)  

    Your "vicious insults" are super laugable v.  Please do continue spewing them, they make for great email forwards!!! LOL

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  25. flemingAugust 8, 2009 at 8:13 PM

    "redistrubtuion of wealth upwards" says v

    I agree.  Its called being successful V.  You know, when someone studies hard and gets a great job out of college.  Or when a person starts a business out of their garage and turns it into something amazing.  You called it -- Upward Redistribution of Wealth -- it is what happens along with success.  You should try it sometime instead of whining about the how all the world is stacked against you.  Its really going to get you NOWHERE, v. Time to grow up and give up childhood fantasies about a new world order.

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  26. flemingAugust 8, 2009 at 8:15 PM

    Gosh tgia, why  would you suggest such violence?  Joe is hardly worth that much trouble.  He is in what is called the extreme minority.

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  27. vAugust 8, 2009 at 8:36 PM

    Instead, what I say, is eat the rich :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h45WnW0ASFY

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  28. anandAugust 8, 2009 at 8:37 PM

    VZA, I don't agree with you. I think we should cut off aid to Israel . . . and then threaten to cut off aid to Egypt unless Egypt agrees to difficult economic and political reforms.

    On Pakistan, the world doesn't have any choice but to give them a couple hundred billion dollars in grants conditioned on difficult economic and other reforms. VZA, what would the world do if Pakistan's nukes fell into the wrong hands? BTW, I think Japan, India and China should give Pakistan tens of billions of dollars too. I think the world has no choice but give the Pakistanis boatloads of money.

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  29. vAugust 8, 2009 at 8:39 PM

    <span>"We have heard it all a million times, V.  Yet you still cannot provide any specifcs."</span>

    Read my site lazy ass

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  30. vAugust 8, 2009 at 8:49 PM

    Vza, I hate to disappoint you, but, it was not put there to benefit any people. I have only said this a few thousand times, it only benefits the few dictators we likr to keep in power and their minions. We don't mind spending it, because your money is no object when it comes to foreign programs that will benefit the special few here.  So, you will pay, and continue to pay more - but it is such a wonderful system, love it or leave it.

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  31. flemingAugust 8, 2009 at 8:54 PM

    Most of the "aid" to Israel is turned around and spent by them on US made weapons and other such goodies.  Thus, it comes right back into the system, so its not quite the drain on our budget as everyone here likes to claim.  Of course, its obvious most of the folks here could care less about the size of the US budget deficit, but just see this as another "get back" at israel tactic. 

    Nevertheless, the "aid spiggot" is a classic example of why such things should never be turned on.  They are almost impossible to turn off.  Personal entittlements work the same way. like free health care, welfare and other redistrubutive programs that do nothing but trap the poor in a lifetime of dependence.  Joe, you have no clue. 

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  32. vzaAugust 8, 2009 at 8:59 PM

    The nukes are already in the wrong hands- Pakistan's. They are corrupt, double dealers, annad. They are taking us for a ride, they take our money, betray us, and some American money, through Pakistani double dealing, is probably being used to kill American soldiers. The ISI cannot be trusted. One Taliban said it all about the Pakistani Army: "They are Muslim, they side with us." With that mentality, there is no amount of aid that will change that dark ages mind set. Time to get out.

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  33. vAugust 8, 2009 at 9:01 PM

    Hey shit head, "welfare" is less than 1% of the budget, kiss my ass

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  34. vzaAugust 8, 2009 at 9:04 PM

    <span>The nukes are already in the wrong hands- Pakistan's. They are corrupt, double dealers, annad. They are taking us for a ride, they take our money, betray us, and some American money, through Pakistani double dealing, is probably being used to kill American soldiers. The ISI cannot be trusted. The Pakistani army cannot be trusted. The politicians cannot be trusted....and you think we need to continue to subsidize them?
    </span>

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  35. vzaAugust 8, 2009 at 9:15 PM

    And then, of course, THIS is Pakistan, too. I wonder, do you think the champions of the dispossessed                will spare these people a blog post? 

    ‘The main issue of minorities is land,’ he says. Attacks have predominantly been caused to grab land. And the tactic to manipulate the minorities oft their lands has been on the basis of false allegations, laws and rumours of blasphemy.

    http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/14-nosheen-abbas-flames-of-hate-889-zj-03

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  36. vzaAugust 8, 2009 at 9:17 PM

    <span>And then, of course, THIS is Pakistan, too. I wonder, do you think the champions of the dispossessed will spare these people a blog post?  
     
    ‘The main issue of minorities is land,’ he says. Attacks have predominantly been caused to grab land. And the tactic to manipulate the minorities oft their lands has been on the basis of false allegations, laws and rumours of blasphemy. 
     
    http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/14-nosheen-abbas-flames-of-hate-889-zj-03</span>

    ReplyDelete
  37. flemingAugust 8, 2009 at 9:23 PM

    Ive been to your site plenty v. Its more of the same, just in really, really long diatribe format.  LOL  And still no specifics.

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  38. vAugust 8, 2009 at 10:00 PM

    Thanks fleming, now i can call yu and even bigger liar, I expect no more from you because you are up against a wall - again.  Poor guy, no where to hide, I would not want to be you for any amount of riches.

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  39. anandAugust 8, 2009 at 10:25 PM

    VZA, we have no choice but to give them money. Can we really risk LA being nuked? Or Mumbai? Or Tokyo? Or Shanghai? Or Moscow? Or Geneva? Or some Najaf?

    VZA, the alternative is too frightning to think about. There are many people who are very determined to do just that. This isn't hyperbole.

    Yes, the Pakistani Army and the ISI directorate created Al Qaeda in 1988; yes they created the Taliban in 1994. Yes they have created many AQ linked networks. We need to Pakistan none the less.

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  40. anandAugust 8, 2009 at 10:26 PM

    <span>VZA, we have no choice but to give them money. Can we really risk LA being nuked? Or Mumbai? Or Tokyo? Or Shanghai? Or Moscow? Or Geneva? Or Quom? 
     
    VZA, the alternative is too frightning to think about. There are many people who are very determined to do just that. This isn't hyperbole. 
     
    Yes, the Pakistani Army and the ISI directorate created Al Qaeda in 1988; yes they created the Taliban in 1994. Yes they have created many AQ linked networks. We need to pay Pakistan none the less.</span>

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  41. anandAugust 8, 2009 at 10:31 PM

    v, please consider expressing your thoughts in a less emotional and politer fashion. There is never any edge to bad manners.

    Many more people would listen to you if you expressed yourself in a more courteous fashion. Remember, brother V, we are emanate from the same source. We are all love, or God, or whatever other word you want to use. Love everyone. Let the love within you pervade everything you say and do. Remember that the bad people are as deserving of your love as the good people. Most  people want to do the right thing. All you need to do is show them the way.

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  42. thankgodimatheistAugust 8, 2009 at 10:50 PM

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    <span>Ive been to your site plenty v.</span>
    ----------------
    Oh yes you do...Where else you go to complain to v that you're banned on the AACS and need some help!...

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  43. thankgodimatheistAugust 8, 2009 at 10:52 PM

    <span><span>-----------</span></span>
    <span><span>Ive been to your site plenty v.</span> 
    ---------------- 
    Oh yes you did...Every time you wanted v to help you out because you were banned on the AACS...
    </span>

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  44. thankgodimatheistAugust 9, 2009 at 12:06 AM

    <span><span><span>-----------</span></span> 
    <span><span>Ive been to your site plenty v.</span>  
    ----------------  
    Oh yes but not that you read anything.....Every time you wanted v to help you out because you were banned on the AACS..</span></span>

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  45. thankgodimatheistAugust 9, 2009 at 12:07 AM

    <span><span><span><span>-----------</span></span>  
    <span><span>Ive been to your site plenty v.</span>   
    ----------------   
    Oh yes but not that you would read anything mind you......Every time you wanted v to help you out because...oh, never mind...
    </span></span></span>

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  46. thankgodimatheistAugust 9, 2009 at 12:12 AM

    --------
    <span><span>Can we really risk LA being nuked?</span></span>
    -----------
    Ha ha ha ha ha!
    Am I enjoying the trip? Hell yeah!!

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  47. vAugust 9, 2009 at 12:59 AM

    hehehe...correct TGIA.  Fleming is like a turd that has been flushed down the toilet, all of his groundless pontifications, including his self-proclaimed field of "expertise" have turned to dust.  All this, within the short time, he has been verbally prancing on this site.

    On the other hand, every single point I have made has hit dead center, both foreign and domestic - it did not matter what part of the spectrum of support of this system, left or right,  they all ate it big time. They touted Obama when he came on the scene, and I said he would not be one wit different in who he serves - and that is exactly what happened. We even had men that I would not hesitate to call brothers from Latin America here - and they wanted to give Obama the benefit of the doubt, but now that is also crashing and burning (see Honduras, which unfortunately will only be the beginning).

    Check all of the timing on what I have said both here ad on my site, all pre-act, just like clockwork - through the last administration into the present one.  Do you think I would have been so correct and not capitalized on it?  Just as accurate as my observations have been, so will the remedy that I espouse be dead on. I will be in the center of it, and fleming will still be denying the validity with his strange, deluded, prejudicial and bigoted screeds.  watch for it -


    http://www.youtube.com/v/-58-36lSqG4

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  48. vAugust 9, 2009 at 1:09 AM

    It does not matter what administration you are talking about with this system, they all deserve the same call - it is up to you to extend this call, we can do it together, let the chips fall where they may -

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFnnV595byE

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  49. vAugust 9, 2009 at 1:27 AM

    Please note carefully that remedies like flemings always call for cutting off the people, the pooret and most vulnerable in this fetid system (because this is what it produces).  It is never cut off the foreign aid which makes it safe for the fortune 500 to exploit, or dismatle the 1000 plus bases around the world that pose a threat for the sake of empire. No, it is take the food out of the mouth of kids - cut off thelittle health care that might be available, stop the programs for the elderly and indigent.

    We all know who and what needs to be cut off, all of the corporate welfare, and their unlimited empowerment.  Cut off their access to those that are supposed to be representing the people, better yet replace them with the people in participatory government. Revamp the entire system, not reform but revolution.

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  50. vAugust 9, 2009 at 1:35 AM

    Here is change you can "believe in"...

    MILITARY COUP IN HONDURAS ENGINEERED BY TWO US COMPANIES AND THE CIA

    http://informationclearinghouse.info/article23211.htm

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  51. vAugust 9, 2009 at 1:37 AM

    EXCERPT FROM ABOVE LINK

    <span style="font-style: normal;"><span><span style="">"I recently visited Central America. Everyone I talked with there was convinced that the military coup that had overthrown the democratically-elected president of Honduras, Manuel Zelaya, had been engineered by two US companies, with CIA support. And that the US and its new president were not standing up for democracy.</span></span><span style=" color: #425c5b;"><span style=" color: #425c5b; font-family: verdana;"></span></span></span>
    <span>
    <p style="margin-bottom: 8pt;"> 
    <p style="margin-bottom: 8pt;"><span style="">Earlier in the year Chiquita Brands International Inc. (formerly United Fruit) and Dole Food Co had severely criticized Zelaya for advocating an increase of 60% in Honduras’s minimum wage, claiming that the policy would cut into corporate profits. They were joined by a coalition of textile manufacturers and exporters, companies that rely on cheap labor to work in their sweatshops."</span>
    </span>

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  52. vAugust 9, 2009 at 1:40 AM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv3xM3v4-rI

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  53. vAugust 9, 2009 at 2:08 AM

    Also vza, you will be happy to know that this financial crisis might mean "wage and budget freeze," because it lost 30 billion dollars out of the 100 billion it has invested in the market (that does not include another 15 billion not invested).  However, their spirits are not dampened -

    “Harvard is resilient enough to weather quite a storm, but exactly what this means, we’ll have to see,” Wilfried Schmid, a math professor who also serves on the Faculty of Arts and Sciences council, told the Globe. “Harvard is still the top university, and we’ll do whatever’s necessary to stay there.”

    Does that not just warm your heart?  Why they have several free standing buildings just for grants and investment.  I just wanted to cheer you up vza :)

    ReplyDelete
  54. vAugust 9, 2009 at 2:09 AM

    <span>Also vza, you will be happy to know that this financial crisis might mean "wage and budget freeze" at Harvard, because it lost 30 billion dollars out of the 100 billion it has invested in the market (that does not include another 15 billion not invested).  However, their spirits are not dampened - 
     
    “Harvard is resilient enough to weather quite a storm, but exactly what this means, we’ll have to see,” Wilfried Schmid, a math professor who also serves on the Faculty of Arts and Sciences council, told the Globe. “Harvard is still the top university, and we’ll do whatever’s necessary to stay there.” 
     
    Does that not just warm your heart?  Why they have several free standing buildings just for grants and investment.  I just wanted to cheer you up vza</span>

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  55. VAAAugust 9, 2009 at 4:44 AM

    <span style="">Why do I have to be a Communist to point out that the super rich are to greedy Joe</span>
    You don't Joe. Fleming is here for a purpose , and that is to make a mockery of everything , with a peas size brain  this piece of dead shit is confusing which whole is which in his body , that is all he can say is shit .. the guy suffers from inferiority complexes and impose himself as superior to all , who knows he could've been , as a child abused  mentally physically or most likely sexually . If any one think they can have a discussion with this little arse whole forget it . he won't ,he's too dumb for that. The obvious truth about this dead shit is that he's got no interest in anything he or this site talk about. but like I said his purpose is to be a constant parasite.If anything he deserves sympathy more than anything else , this I'm unable to provide . I 'm no longer able to see his action without stepping over the line and call him what he really is . Therefore there is no need for TGIA to ban me , I'm doing it myself out of respect for the site and the others. But I think it's about time for everyone to recognise this fucker. Burn in hell dead shit ( if there is one ) .

    ReplyDelete
  56. flemingAugust 9, 2009 at 5:01 AM

    Quite a rant above VAA.  Way to NOT advance the discussion.

    But dont you see VAA?  For you to get so angry, I must have really hit a nerve.  I suspect that, ultimately, you must know why your anger is so at the ready.  I wont project all kinds of faults upon you, as you did me.  I will just assume if I can get to you that easily, without even really trying, and your primary response is to "viciously insult", then it says ALOT more about you than me.

    When you claim I was sexually abused as a child, or that I have an inferiority complex that causes me to act superior, or that I am too dumb to have conversations, well those kind of things are just plain silly/funny to me.  Water off a duck's back, so to speak.  I know they do not describe me, and so why would I be bothered? 

    Reasoned discourse is the hallmark of civilization.  You should try it.  

    ReplyDelete
  57. flemingAugust 9, 2009 at 5:12 AM

    Ive read plenty at V's site.  So what?  Doesnt mean I buy it.  Extremist bs can be found in many places on the web.  Its still bs.

    And yea, I sought his assistnce after you banned me here.  And I appreciated his help.  Doesnt mean Im suddenly going to start agreeing with what he says.  You dont ever argue with people who have done you favors? 

    Oh yea, on Honduras.  The "street" loves to come up with wild accusations about the CIA and other US "meddling".  Where is the evidence V? Many a rumor is total bs. 

    You guys need to get a grip.  SA is leaning toward capitlalism and democracy more and more.  All those hispanics who come to the US.  They see what works here, and that lesson gets transferred back to their home country.  The more lof then that see what is possible in the US, the more of them want to see that same model in their own country. 

    ReplyDelete
  58. vAugust 9, 2009 at 5:59 AM

    So we will watch the evidence mount you stupid jackass, and once again, for who knows how many times, you will be proven to be an idiot with a big mouth again.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/the-minimum-wage-and-the_b_254023.html

    Supporters of the coup have tried to trick Americans into believing that President Zelaya was ousted by the Honduran military because he broke the law. But this is nonsense. A Honduran bishop told Catholic News Service,
    <blockquote>"Some say Manuel Zelaya threatened democracy by proposing a constitutional assembly. But the poor of Honduras know that Zelaya raised the minimum salary. That's what they understand. They know he defended the poor by sharing money with mayors and small towns. That's why they are out in the streets closing highways and protesting (to demand Zelaya's return)"</blockquote>

    This is why the greedy, self-absorbed Honduran elite turned against President Zelaya: because he was pursuing policies in the interests of the majority. The Washington Post noted in mid-July,
    <blockquote>To many poor Hondurans, deposed president Manuel "Mel" Zelaya was a trailblazing ally who scrapped school tuitions, raised the minimum wage and took on big business.</blockquote>

    In a statement condemning support for the coup by U.S. business groups, the International Textile, Garment and Leather Workers' Federation expressed its concern that under the coup regime, there are worsening working conditions, and in particular at efforts to claw back a wage increase ordered by President Zelaya six months ago in order to reflect the increased cost of food and other essentials. In reality the increased wage barely covered 90% of basic food needs and less than a third of a living wage covering basic needs such as food, rent, transport, education, and medical care."

    ReplyDelete
  59. anandAugust 9, 2009 at 6:19 AM

    TGIA, what is so funny? Seriously. "<span>Am I enjoying the trip? Hell yeah!!</span>" There are many Takfiris plotting about how to kil millions of civilians.

    Remember that they launched operations to kill Iraqi civilians; and succeeded in killing tens of thousands of them. In a single terrorist attack against the Yazidis on August 14, 2009, AQ killed perhaps 700 of them. This isn't some joke TGIA.

    ReplyDelete
  60. GuestAugust 9, 2009 at 7:24 AM

    Fleming there have been plenty of CIA officials who have come out and told the truth about past CIA involvement in coups and such around the world, so it is easy for many to  believe that the CIA was also involved in the Honduras
    coup. The only probalm is that they usually do it after they retire and when long after the fact....

    It is a fact that the CIA does not work for the American people's interests, they work for large corporate interests which benefit  certain groups of the elite....


























































    Neo-conservatives, their town hall mobs, the media and America































































    http://namaw.blogspot.com/2009/08/neo-conservatives-their-town-hall-mobs.html

    ReplyDelete
  61. MaracatuAugust 9, 2009 at 9:56 AM

    Breaking the Silence

    ReplyDelete
  62. MaracatuAugust 9, 2009 at 10:09 AM

    Is the US on the brink of fascism?

    ReplyDelete
  63. MaracatuAugust 9, 2009 at 10:21 AM

    Now, the guessing game is over. We know beyond doubt that the Teabag movement was created out of whole cloth by astroturf groups like Dick Armey's FreedomWorks and Tim Phillips' Americans for Prosperity, with massive media help from FOX News. We see the Birther fracas -- the kind of urban myth-making that should have never made it out of the pages of the National Enquirer -- being openly ratified by Congressional Republicans. We've seen Armey's own professionally-produced field manual that carefully instructs conservative goon squads in the fine art of disrupting the democratic governing process -- and the film of public officials being terrorized and threatened to the point where some of them required armed escorts to leave the building. We've seen Republican House Minority Leader John Boehner applauding and promoting a video of the disruptions and looking forward to "a long, hot August for Democrats in Congress."
    http://www.truthout.org/080909A

    ReplyDelete
  64. vAugust 9, 2009 at 10:39 AM

    I want you to note something, fleming knows better than anyone close to this what happened,  that is because his government NEVER lies to him. However, there is a deeper angle,  the views of the people in the region are supposed to be suspect, because they are generally unworthy of consideration, according to fleming.  His reply is nothing but the continuous inference of the anglo - American as well as Eurocentric view of what is taking place in Latin America (or anywhere in the world during any time period).

    As "Guest" says in his post, all of the past of CIA involvement and US corporations is supposed to be dismissed.  However, the fact remains that the issue of what took place is much more complex than the external explanations we get from corporate media.  All of these pieces - the past of the country, the incursion of the IMF policy, CIA activity, the armed forces leaders being trained in the School Of The Americas,  the suppression of the wages for foreign corporations and Zelaya's lifting of that base infuriating the said corporations, the fear of another participatory democracy of the left rising, all work together to militate against the simple scenario presented.  Flemings "expertise" over all of the emerging evidence not withstanding.

    ReplyDelete
  65. GuestAugust 9, 2009 at 10:45 AM

    u get that whenever there's a jew around

    ReplyDelete
  66. vzaAugust 9, 2009 at 11:11 AM

      This is the sign we were waiting for -- the one that tells us that yes, kids: we are there now. America's conservative elites have openly thrown in with the country's legions of discontented far right thugs. They have explicitly deputized them and empowered them to act as their enforcement arm on America's streets, sanctioning the physical harassment and intimidation of workers, liberals, and public officials who won't do their political or economic bidding.
        This is the catalyzing moment at which honest-to-Hitler fascism begins. It's also our very last chance to stop it.

    Oh my goodness, This is the sign we've been waiting for? I am breathless with fear! You mean those little grannies at a healthcare bill protest I passed on my way to the art museum were really honest-to-Hitler fascists thugs? Our last chance, she says? Our very last chance? =-O

    But...but...how do we stop them...for stop them we must!
    Surely the LEFT has the answer. Gulags in the Rockies perhaps? Call Fidel, quick, he'll know what to do! Che admired North Korea's way of dealing with this sort of thing! Let's channel Che! Executions? Poor grannies. :'(

    ReplyDelete
  67. mollyAugust 9, 2009 at 11:52 AM

    Fleming, I'm on medicaid and I'm not in a "cycle of dependence".  

    ReplyDelete
  68. mollyAugust 9, 2009 at 11:54 AM

    VZA, some of those town hall people were asked if there were against any form of socialist or govt. run medical insurance.  They all said yes, against it.  Then they were asked how many of them were on medicaid.  They may not be fascists, but they are ignorant, and dupes of lobbyists who started these faux grass roots movements.  

    ReplyDelete
  69. mollyAugust 9, 2009 at 11:57 AM

    Forgot to mention that half of them were on medicare.  If you want to get rid of govt. run health care, then you have to have stricter laws requiring business to provide health care.  I know plenty of people who have been working at the same company for several years and have no health insurance.

    ReplyDelete
  70. flemingAugust 9, 2009 at 12:00 PM

    Dont be ridiculous Anand.  The world is not going to "give" Pakistan tens of billions of dollars out of fear - and seek nothing in return except that they properly safegyuard their nuclear stockpile.  If they are so incompetent as to need that much aid just to keep miscreants out of their most sensitive military areas, they dont deserve to have the weapons in the first place.  Besides, if the world did so, it would constitute "extortion" by Pakistan.  Are you familiar with that term?  The world will not allow itself to be extorted out of tens of billions of dollars by incomeptent managers and a few beareded outlaws.

    You really think a farmer in Kansas should like awake at night scared of the takfiri?  Dont be absurd.

    ReplyDelete
  71. mollyAugust 9, 2009 at 12:04 PM

    VZA, read this article to see who the grannies are led by:  http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/09/opinion/09rich.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

    ReplyDelete
  72. vAugust 9, 2009 at 12:06 PM

    Molly, you are a disgrace...LOL :)

    ReplyDelete
  73. anandAugust 9, 2009 at 12:28 PM

    Fleming, who is being naive. North Korea has extorted tens of billions of dollars out of the US, Japan, South Korea, China, Australia and other coutnries precisely that way.

    Fleming, the Pakistanis helped create Al Qaeda, many AQ linked networks, and the Taliban. They did so to use them against India, Russia and the Shia. About a month before 9/11 the ISI directorate sent a wire transfer to Mohammed Atta, the ring leader of the 9/11 plot. It has been speculated that this wire transfer was authorized by the head of the ISI, who was fired by Musharraf 12 days after 9/11.

    Fleming, only a complete fool would discount the risk of a WMD attack on the US homeland from these AQ linked networks. Part of the price for protecting the US is paying Pakistan protection money, although we don't call it that.

    ReplyDelete
  74. anandAugust 9, 2009 at 12:31 PM

    Molly you have a point, given that medicaid and medicare are "single payer" health care. However, most of these town hall people are ordinary folks that aren't facists or part of some "conspiracy."

    ReplyDelete
  75. vzaAugust 9, 2009 at 12:33 PM

    <span>They may not be fascists, but they are ignorant, and dupes of lobbyists who started these faux grass roots movements.  </span>

    No, they are not fascists or even the warning signs of a coming fascism. Perhaps some are ignorant. Dupes? I don't know about that yet.
    My critique was not of health care reform but of the overwrought article, obviously written by a rigid ideologue who shrilly announced that fascism is at the door!. 
    I do not know  anybody who is against health care reform, Molly. But must we be for this particular bill in its present form or else we are fascists or ignorant or dupes? I don't think so. Lobbyists and special interests are also behind the people who wrote this bill, too.

    ReplyDelete
  76. anandAugust 9, 2009 at 12:34 PM

    I just left a new comment at:
    http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2009/08/hamas-pretends.php

    Reproduced:
    "Any response to a series of Friedman articles about the improving West Bank economy? The latest is here:
    http:/
    /www.nytimes.com/2009/08/09/opinion/09friedman.html?_r=1&ref=opinion
    Friedman is arguing that the 4 Jordanian/US trained Palestinian National Security Forces battalions are performing well on the field. Any thoughts regarding the NSF? Could the NSF be expanded in size, assume full responsibility for security in the West Bank (including for Israeli citizen settlers in the occupied territories), and eventually even recapture and administer all of Gaza?
    Could the NSF allow Israel to greatly ease restrictions on Palestinians commuting to work in Israel; Palestinians visiting Israel and conducting business inside Israel? Could Israel perhaps grant many work visas and higher education visas to Palestinians from the diaspora and West Bank?
    I think that perhaps one appropriate way for Israel to respond to the success of the NSF is to announce that 25% of all Israeli college/university freshman admissions would be reserved in an "affirmative action" type program for occupied territory and diaspora Palestinian students. All the Palestinian students should be given 100% Israeli government paid scholarships.
    Perhaps it might be instructive to discuss how much the West Bank economy is improving; and what Israel can do to encourage this. One idea I have is that the Israeli government should provide affordable insurance to Palestinian business people to cover against the risk of Israeli land confiscation, war related battle damage, and terrorist/crime related damage. This would be a way for Israel to demonstrate its confidence in the NSF and Palestinian Authority, and in the safety and business climate in the occupied territories.
    If Israeli citizens start having confidence in the NSF, then Israel should suggest that hundreds of thousands of Israelis living in the West Bank become dual Palestinian/Israeli citizens; and that Palestinians should have a right to buy/rent property and visit all settlements in the occupied territories. This desegregation of the settlements might facilitate final settlement negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians."

    If the NSF are as good fighters as Freidman seems to suggest. Could Abbas use them to retake Gaza from Hamas? Hamas remains weakened from the recent war with Israel, and might not be able to resist the NSF.

    ReplyDelete
  77. vzaAugust 9, 2009 at 12:52 PM

    Very good opinion piece. But all are not dupes or ignorant, Molly. That is a cynicism I am not prepared to embrace yet.


    But the Democratic members of Congress those hecklers assailed can hardly claim the moral high ground. Their ties to health care interests are merely more discreet and insidious. As Congressional Quarterly reported last week, industry groups contributed almost $1.8 million in the first six months of 2009 alone to the 18 House members of both parties supervising health care reform, Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer among them.

    ReplyDelete
  78. vzaAugust 9, 2009 at 1:13 PM

    This is really a great piece, Molly. Thanks. For me, here is the money quote:


    The best political news for the president remains the Republicans. It’s a measure of how out of touch G.O.P. leaders like Mitch McConnell and John Boehner are that they keep trying to scare voters by calling Obama a socialist. They have it backward. The larger fear is that Obama might be just another corporatist, punking voters much as the Republicans do when they claim to be all for the common guy. If anything, the most unexpected — and challenging — event that could rock the White House this August would be if the opposition actually woke up.

    ReplyDelete
  79. vzaAugust 9, 2009 at 2:08 PM

    The only thing this article is missing is the famous opening line, "It was a dark and stormy night."
    Give that gal the Edward Bulwer-Lytonn Award for 2009!

    ReplyDelete
  80. vzaAugust 9, 2009 at 2:10 PM

    <span>The only thing this article is missing is the famous opening line, "It was a dark and stormy night." 
    Give that gal the Edward Bulwer-Lytton Award for 2009!</span>

    ReplyDelete
  81. flemingAugust 9, 2009 at 2:19 PM

    Do you think the USA is so weak it cant protect itself and therefore has to pay others to do so?  Really?  Really!!??

    Dont you think the Pakistanis know if a nuke goes off in the USA with their signature on it we will respond in a VERY aggressive manner?

    No one is discounting the possibility of a WMD attack on the US.  Of course the possibility exists.  But we dont need to go bended knee to a third world country like Pakistan seeking their benevolence lest we be laid low by guys who live in huts without running water and electricity. 

    You think if a WMD goes off in the US we will just lay down and surrender to the takfiri?  HARDLY.  You would see the mobilization of a total extermination effort that would result in the utter annihilation of an entire section of the world.  You would see islamic holy sites incited by nuclear attack.  You would see massive retaliation on a scale you cannot comprehend. 

    ReplyDelete
  82. MaracatuAugust 9, 2009 at 4:30 PM

    A lot of people had six kittens over similar pronouncements against Hilter. 
    http://www.thirdreich.net/Thought_They_Were_Free.html

    So do you support all the racist niceties that have been said about Obama at the Tea Parties?

    ReplyDelete
  83. MaracatuAugust 9, 2009 at 4:50 PM

    "<span>My critique was not of health care reform but of the overwrought article</span>"

    Some of the things said at the town meetings are just along the same lines as that article (only that you support their side and therefore are willing to grant them the benefit of the doubt).

    "<span>Lobbyists and special interests are also behind the people who wrote this bill, too.</span>"

    No doubt!  http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/robert_reich/2009/08/how-the-white-houses-deal-with.php?ref=fpblg

    But it boils down to: "which is better?"  One side's lobbyists or the other?

    ReplyDelete
  84. MaracatuAugust 9, 2009 at 4:56 PM

    Last week, after being reported in the Los Angeles Times, the White House confirmed it has promised Big Pharma that any healthcare legislation will bar the government from using its huge purchasing power to negotiate lower drug prices. That's basically the same deal George W. Bush struck in getting the Medicare drug benefit, and it's proven a bonanza for the drug industry. A continuation will be an even larger bonanza, given all the Boomers who will be enrolling in Medicare over the next decade. And it will be a gold mine if the deal extends to Medicaid, which will be expanded under most versions of the healthcare bills now emerging from Congress, and to any public option that might be included. (We don't know how far the deal extends beyond Medicare because its details haven't been made public.)

    http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/robert_reich/2009/08/how-the-white-houses-deal-with.php?ref=fpblg

    ReplyDelete
  85. flemingAugust 9, 2009 at 5:59 PM

    Indeed Marcatu.  We should rid ourselves of those pesky profit seeking drug companies.  Let the morally pure Africans and other third worlders develop all the new drugs and give them away free.  Wont that be a wonderful world!!!!! 

    ReplyDelete
  86. vzaAugust 9, 2009 at 6:35 PM

    <span>So do you support all the racist niceties that have been said about Obama at the Tea Parties?</span>

    Of course not, I voted for the man and even if I hadn't, the racist taunts are out of line. Just as out of line as all of the truly nasty stuff hurled at Bush or Clinton or assorted other presidents.....all protected free speech. I never heard anyone on the Left concerned about what Bush was called. Oh but of course, THAT was okay!
    Besides, It is wrong to judge all of the people who are protesting the bailout and the health care reform bill by the actions of the nutcases. I was in London in 2003 when the huge anti-war march took place. I saw things...signs and effigies that were so vulgar and disgusting. Should I have judged the anti-war movement by the retarded actions of the wackos? 

     Why is it suddenly so hard to imagine there are decent people who simply do not agree with how  certain issues are being handled? Does only one side of the political spectrum embody the virtue of concern for the welfare of the country? I think not.
    I do not care for the screamers and shouters who try to disrupt meetings and speeches and they should pipe down but even here there is such a double standard. If I wanted to, I could compile a list of all the speeches far Leftist groups managed to disrupt and even prematurely end on campuses and other venues.

    ReplyDelete
  87. vzaAugust 9, 2009 at 6:46 PM

    As far as that overwrought piece by Ms. Robinson is concerned..it is too funny to be taken seriously. I am sorry, but this is a prime example of how a slavish adherence to an ideology can distort reality.
    Can it happen here? Of course it could, but it isn't happening now because of tea parties!

    ReplyDelete
  88. vzaAugust 9, 2009 at 6:47 PM

    <span>As far as that overwrought piece by Ms. Robinson is concerned..it is too funny to be taken seriously. I am sorry, but this is a prime example of how a slavish adherence to an ideology can distort reality. 
    Can it happen here? Of course it could, but it isn't happening now because of Tea Parties!</span>

    ReplyDelete
  89. vzaAugust 9, 2009 at 6:48 PM

    <span><span>As far as that overwrought piece by Ms. Robinson is concerned..it is too funny to be taken seriously. I am sorry, but this is a prime example of how a slavish adherence to an ideology can distort reality.  
    Can it happen here? Of course it could, but it isn't happening now! </span></span>

    ReplyDelete
  90. vzaAugust 9, 2009 at 7:04 PM

    <span>Some of the things said at the town meetings are just along the same lines as that article (only that you support their side and therefore are willing to grant them the benefit of the doubt).</span>

    Actually, I think there are a couple of different "sides" within the Tea Party movement. I do not agree with many of their stances. I do support their right to protest without being labeled fascists or Nazis. As for the loons who are screaming about Obama turning the U.S. into a socialist or communist state, I do not even take them seriously they are so ridiculous.

    ReplyDelete
  91. vAugust 9, 2009 at 8:54 PM

    Oh yes vza, you keep believing that...they are so corrupt and we are so stupid we keep giving them money.  This is turning out to be a really funny comedy of stupidity, it is a contest...lol Who is dumber, the said usa who keeps giving to corrupt leaders, or th person who believes this scenario?


    http://www.youtube.com/v/TRE7gINaS5o

    ReplyDelete
  92. MaracatuAugust 10, 2009 at 4:44 AM

    Showing your racist side again, fleming?

    ReplyDelete
  93. MaracatuAugust 10, 2009 at 4:48 AM

    While I hope you are right, I somehow wouldn't rely on your judgement to see it coming.

    ReplyDelete
  94. flemingAugust 10, 2009 at 5:53 AM

    Why dont you address the issue rather than going on a racist witch hunt Marcatu?  Is that the zenith of your discriminatory powers -- ferreting out racist tendencies?  Very impressive. LOL

    Look, Africa is one of the most backward continents on the planet.  Is that racist to say...the truth?  That is why I used them as an example.  But if you prefer, insert Cuba, or some other SA dump.

    This love of throwing out the racist card at every chance is really having a negative affect.  For you see, committing a "racist" act is one thing.  But you cannot see in people's minds, nor control how they think.  If you really care about racism, you will live life the best you can and let people make their own decisions.  Trying to "shame" or force people into certain ways of thinking, ala non-muslims are infidels or non-believers are going to hell, is a huge turn-off.

    ReplyDelete
  95. vzaAugust 10, 2009 at 7:33 AM

     Oh dear.  Of course you wouldn't.:(

    ReplyDelete
  96. vAugust 10, 2009 at 7:58 AM

    Actually fleming, you do not know a compliment when you hear one, because Mara called you a racist with no qualifiers. It is assumed that a racist may know many things but have decided to still make the types of posts you do. Personally, I an not so inclined - I believe you to be a willingly ignorant racist, which makes you an especially low life form. ;)

    ReplyDelete
  97. vAugust 10, 2009 at 8:00 AM

    <span>Actually fleming, you do not know a compliment when you hear one, because Mara called you a racist with no qualifiers. It is assumed that a racist may know many things but have decided to still make the types of posts you do. Personally, I an not so inclined - I believe you to be a willingly ignorant racist, which makes you an especially low life form. Someone who does not exercise the mental apparatus necessary to even have a modicum of ability to address an issue, a particularly low form that likes to wallow in self-inflicted stupidity. :)
    </span>

    ReplyDelete
  98. MaracatuAugust 10, 2009 at 8:25 AM

    Look, Africa is one of the most backward continents on the planet.  Is that racist to say...the truth?  That is why I used them as an example.

    Nearly all scientific advances and groundbreaking modern inventions were made by men.  Does that make women backward?

    ReplyDelete
  99. flemingAugust 10, 2009 at 9:17 AM

    What a silly question Marcatu.  The definition of backward is not tied to how many groundbreaking inventions have been made, or not, by a particular party.  Nor did I imply it was - but you did. 

    Africa is backward in the sense of near constant war, ever present disease, starvation, malnutrition, very low per capita GNP, the persistence of ancient tribal customs, etc. 

    Oh, that's right, I forgot it is all the white man's fault LOL

    ReplyDelete
  100. anandAugust 10, 2009 at 10:27 AM

    Fleming it is legitimate to call Africans financially poor, and less educated. Calling them "backwards" is inappropriate.

    ReplyDelete
  101. anandAugust 10, 2009 at 10:29 AM

    Fleming, Africa's problems are primarily her own, and not the fault of non Africans.

    Why did you bring up "white man"? White people are less importatant than you think. Africa's largest trading and investment partner is China, not America and not Europe.

    ReplyDelete
  102. vAugust 10, 2009 at 10:35 AM

    Fuck you fleming, you ass wipe, let me put you in a cage you proverbial asshole, and than you can try to "advance."  Shit for brains asswipe

    ReplyDelete
  103. flemingAugust 10, 2009 at 10:58 AM

    I bring up "the white man" because: I am one; and because people like Maracatu, V and The Angry Arab love to disparage us as being responsible for all the world's ills.  What, you havent noticed that Anand?  Are you paying attention? 
    Sorry Anand, white people ARE important for me because, as I stated, I am one.  Thus their interests and my own naturally align.  I know this is hard for you to understand. 

    The US and Europe still represent the two largest economic entities in the world -- by far.  Im sure you know the numbers.  As far as who reprsents the largest trading partner to Africa - who cares?  I didnt bring it up to get into a pissing contest about who "matters" more. 

    Africa's problems are her own --- no kidding Anand?  LOL  Oh brother.  I was being what is called "sarcastic".  Do you have the capacity for understanding such nuance?  Apparently not.

    Africa IS a backward place.  If you folks dont like me saying what is the obvious truth, then that is your own inability to face facts.  Did everyone else see where an African person offered Sec Clinton a collection goats and cows in exchange for Chelsea's hand in marriage?  Noooo, Africa isnt backward.....LOL

    Meanwhile, in the US, if a woman makes two cents less an hour than a man all of a sudden it is seen as evidence of how anachronistic the US is.  But an African can offer their farm aninals in trade for a wife and its considered "charming".  What utter PC crap.

    The continent of Africa is a goddamned mess, and everyone knows it. 

    ReplyDelete
  104. MaracatuAugust 10, 2009 at 11:00 AM

    Not quite. 

    You were the one who, out of the blue, decided to insert the phrase "<span>morally pure Africans</span>" with deep racist connotations into a topic that had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with race, nationality nor ethnicity.  As far as I can see, the discussion had to do with healthcare and I was conceding a point to vza.

    I can only guess why you would insist on bringing up something completely extraneous to the point being discussed. 

    And..., on top of that fact, you persist in wanting to make this a personal thing.

    OK, since you insisted...

    I made my guess explicit based (among other things) on your defensive remarks from the following thread - http://angryarabscommentsection.blogspot.com/2009/07/good-society_25.html :

    Sorry Maracatu, as the only "white dude" on this blog I have some sad truth for you.  Yea, we probably prefer our own company, but its mostly a cultural thing.

    Cultural thing?

    When you have actually been a white person then perhaps you can tell us all what it is like.  Until then why dont you stick to describing the experiences of your own people.

    Your own people?

    Let the public be the judge.

    ReplyDelete
  105. MaracatuAugust 10, 2009 at 11:16 AM

    Two things, fleming,
    1) You characterize Africa as being in a state of constant war?  Surely you jest.  There have undoubtedly been wars in Africa and long wars, but NONE compare in destructive potential and in the sheer numbers of people blown to bits with the most sophisticated of weapsons as the European wars; those waged among themselves and those waged by them on other peoples of the world.  If that is all your "superior GNP" is good for, then you can keep it for yourself.  Heaven help us if you decide one day to blow the world to smithereens!

    Also...

    2) If I went to someone from a certain ethnicity and told them that their country/region/continent of origin was "backward", I would likely lose my two front teeth.  A sensitive, sensible person would use the qualifier "underdeveloped" instead of "backward" which has less degrading connotations (and is more appropriate in an economic context).  I hope that you are just being ignorant, because if on the otherhand you chose your words knowlingly, then my guess about you (above) is probably much closer to the truth than you care to admit).

    ReplyDelete
  106. mollyAugust 10, 2009 at 11:58 AM

    Wait, you're the only white guy on this blog, Fleming?  Us Jews ain't white enough for you, now?  lol

    ReplyDelete
  107. MaracatuAugust 10, 2009 at 1:38 PM

    Anand,
    I would venture to say that when As'ad and others speak of "the White man" it is usually done in a kind of figurative reference to the center of power.  It extends beyond mere skin color insofar as neocolonial rulers have been referred (as in Franz Fanon's book Black Skin; White Masks) as Whites despite their color (to designate they are linked with the White power structure).  These concepts are historically linked to the immediate post-colonial period (you can see such references in the literature of the time) and one can argue if they are becoming dated or not.

    ReplyDelete
  108. MaracatuAugust 10, 2009 at 1:41 PM

    I bet if you look deep enough, you will discover than Flaming ain't 100% white either!

    ReplyDelete
  109. flemingAugust 10, 2009 at 2:17 PM

    Are you a white GUY, Molly?

    ReplyDelete
  110. flemingAugust 10, 2009 at 2:25 PM

    Yes, its ok to speak of the "white man" in a derogatory fashion, because you are only doing it "symbolically". Plus, its so in fashion! LOL

    ReplyDelete
  111. flemingAugust 10, 2009 at 2:31 PM

    The USA has not fought an internal war since 1865.  Europe has made its peace and is now united.  Africa has not, and remains an utterly fragmented, impoverished, underdevelped, poorly governed, economic wasteland.  These are all surprises to you? You may not like my words but the facts are the facts. 

    I did not know I had to take your feelings into account when I brought up Africa.  Would you please reprimand V for his use of the word "asswipe" concerning me?  My feelings are in disarray over it....

    Oh just me be ignorant again, no biggie.  I defer to you, master academian and PC extraordianrie

    ReplyDelete
  112. anandAugust 10, 2009 at 2:36 PM

    with respect to this comment: "<span style="cursor: pointer;">Maracatu</span><img src="http://js-kit.com/images/icon10-external-url.png"/> <span>Two things, fleming,</span>"
    Fleming, this shouldn't need to be explained to you, given the number of interactions you have had with many people of different backgrounds.

    "<span>an African person offered Sec Clinton a collection goats and cows in exchange for Chelsea's hand in marriage?</span>" I didn't know about it. But it gave me a good laugh. It "IS" charming, cute, and innocent. Culturally different from yourself does not necessarily imply immoral, ammoral and inferior.

    BTW, there is subtle discrimination against woman in the work place. It isn't everywhere; and there are many case for anti men discrimination too; but there is nothing wrong in noting was does exist.

    Let me give you an example. There is a steriotype that girls are not nerds or engineers or computer geeks. As a result many woman do not get sufficient respect in the work place in the valley. At the same time woman are might be percieved as "good with people" and might be associated with sales, account management, marketing, technological evangelist and business development roles.

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  113. MaracatuAugust 10, 2009 at 3:04 PM

    Cuiusvis hominis est errare; nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare

    <span>...love to disparage us as being responsible for all the world's ills.  What, you havent noticed that Anand?  Are you paying attention?   
    Sorry Anand, white people ARE important for me because, as I stated, I am one.    </span>

    De asini vmbra disceptare!

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  114. flemingAugust 10, 2009 at 3:07 PM

    Oh yes Anand, it is so cute and funny when an IGNORANT person of color suggests trading a woman for their farm animals. How adorable.  If prostitutes would just "trade" their services for some "good eats", my, wouldnt that be charming as hell. 

    Anand, dont preach about what should be explained to me. Geez. You have the social skills of a giraffe.

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  115. vAugust 10, 2009 at 3:55 PM

    We are not "ivory snow' white...lol

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  116. vAugust 10, 2009 at 3:57 PM

    <span>"Did everyone else see where an African person offered Sec Clinton a collection goats and cows in exchange for Chelsea's hand in marriage? "</span>

    It was too good of an offer

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  117. flemingAugust 10, 2009 at 4:20 PM

    Ahhhhmmm, no one here speaks latin except you Marcatu.  Thus your point (assuming you have one?) is lost. 

    Could you be any more boring?  Do you think because you can spew out latin that you are my intellectual superior, and that I should therefore mentally bow down in respect of your tremendous intellectual might?  LOL

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  118. vAugust 10, 2009 at 4:21 PM

    Listem fleming, you little peevish ass wipe, youy know NOTHING about the fighting in any area of Africa, do you know why? Because you are an ignorant baboon informed by those who create the rifts, sell the weapons, exploit the region, and have stolen trillions of dollars from Africa. You know nothing about it because you are not only ignorant, but you choose to remain ignorant - you are a low life racist because you like being one, Antebellum Slavery is just fine for you - in fact, you believe in the inferiority of the races, because you want to. You cloak it in all manner of description -

    <span>"Europe has made its peace and is now united.  Africa has not, and remains an utterly fragmented, impoverished, underdevelped, poorly governed, economic wasteland."</span>

    Yes, Europe and the USA has made its "peace," it has buried the hatchet in the back of the African body after it almost comnpletely destroyed it.  Plus, you act as though it is all by its lonesome, nothing else is happening in Africa - you are an idiot, you have no idea what is taking place right now there, you are a fucking moron with a capital F.

    Ergo, since there is "peace" (in your blank mind) and all of these other "ailments" arise, what is the conclusion? Oh - they are inferior and cannot rule themselves nor advance. they can just create a "wasteland." These are the "facts," the "facts," that is the facts to a willingly ignorant rascist moron!  Other ignoramus agree with you, aka anand - but what else is new in this case? Nothing.

    Why don't you just cut your head off Emer Fud, you do not use it. Imbecile

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  119. flemingAugust 10, 2009 at 4:36 PM

    A classic rant from the master of ranting: V! :)

    You will never change my mind, or convince me of anything, other than you are a disturbed nutcase, with that approach.  Nor will you anybody else's.  I dont know what you do for a living, v, but let me guess: You are not in sales. LOL LOL LOL

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  120. vAugust 10, 2009 at 5:08 PM

    I don't care fleming :)  Sit and twirl on th point at the top of your head.

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  121. anandAugust 10, 2009 at 5:22 PM

    v, are you insulting Chelsea? That is below the belt.

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  122. thankgodimatheistAugust 10, 2009 at 5:44 PM

    <span>
    You were the one who, out of the blue, decided to insert the phrase "<span>morally pure Africans</span>" with deep racist connotations into a topic //// Mara
    </span>
    --------------------
    How surprising? Why do you think I stopped talking to this turd?

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  123. flemingAugust 10, 2009 at 6:14 PM

    That's what makes you so hilarious v.  You revel in your own lack of relevance.

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  124. flemingAugust 10, 2009 at 6:16 PM

    Hey Maracatu, dont you want to shout down tgia for being a "potty mouth"!!!

    Of course you dont, cause its cool when your buds do it.

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  125. flemingAugust 10, 2009 at 6:17 PM

    At least that was an attempt at humor.  Not bad, V.  Anand, grow a funny bone.

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  126. MaracatuAugust 10, 2009 at 6:35 PM

    I think whites are carefully taught not to recognize white privilege, as males are taught not to recognize male privilege. So I have begun in an untutored way to ask what it is like to have white privilege. I have come to see white privilege as an invisible package of unearned assets that I can count on cashing in each day, but about which I was "meant" to remain oblivious. White privilege is like an invisible weightless knapsack of special provisions, maps, passports, codebooks, visas, clothes, tools , and blank checks.
    http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html

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  127. MaracatuAugust 10, 2009 at 6:41 PM

    TGIA - His is a case of "Hoc natura est insitum, ut quem timueris, hunc semper oderis"

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  128. MaracatuAugust 10, 2009 at 6:41 PM

    Daily effects of white privilege

    I decided to try to work on myself at least by identifying some of the daily effects of white privilege in my life. I have chosen those conditions that I think in my case attach somewhat more to skin-color privilege than to class, religion, ethnic status, or geographic location, though of course all these other factors are intricately intertwined. As far as I can tell, my African American coworkers, friends, and acquaintances with whom I come into daily or frequent contact in this particular time, place and time of work cannot count on most of these conditions.

    1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

    2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

    3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

    4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

    5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

    6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

    7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

    8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

    9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

    10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

    11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.
    http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html

    ReplyDelete
  129. flemingAugust 10, 2009 at 6:53 PM

    More latin phrases from our resident ninny (or is it ninno/ninnas/ninnat/ninnamus/ninnatis/ninnant?)

    HAHAHAHA

    ReplyDelete
  130. mollyAugust 10, 2009 at 7:40 PM

    No, I'm not, Fleming, but V is.  I don't believe that story about Chelsea.  She's kind of ugly.   

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  131. vAugust 10, 2009 at 8:05 PM

    Matbe a chicken and a baby pig, but all of that other stuff fore her? Forget it LOL

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  132. vAugust 10, 2009 at 8:06 PM

    Maybe a chicken and a baby pig perhaps, but all that other stuff for her? Forget it! :)

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  133. thankgodimatheistAugust 10, 2009 at 8:27 PM

    fleming
    It's about time you stop putting words in people's mouths...They're old enough to do it themselves!

    ReplyDelete
  134. vAugust 10, 2009 at 10:17 PM

    It has nothing to do with "cool when buds do it,"  but merely a universal response of utter disgust

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  135. anandAugust 10, 2009 at 10:34 PM

    Molly, how could you say that about another woman? I am really offended. :-(

    ReplyDelete
  136. vAugust 10, 2009 at 11:09 PM

    Oh be quiet anand you little caricature of a person...lol

    ReplyDelete
  137. thankgodimatheistAugust 11, 2009 at 12:23 AM

    Stop preaching anand..It's tiring!

    ReplyDelete
  138. GuestAugust 11, 2009 at 2:40 AM

    Believe wha tyou want Molly.   But here is the link:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32312944/

    <h1>Goats for marriage? It's Chelsea Clinton's call</h1>
    <h2>Kenyan's dowry offer of 40 goats and 20 cows might still be on the table</h2>


    So "ugly" women cant ever attract suitors, Molly?  You dont thinnk anyone on earth would find her in the least bit attractive?  For some people, obviously not you, attraction can be more than about looks. 

    BTW, Im no huge Clinton fan.  But Chelsea has grown up to be an attractive perslon.

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  139. mollyAugust 11, 2009 at 9:16 AM

    She's no Malia Obama.  Yes, Fleming, I know attraction can be more than looks.  I have dated a few, ah, less conventially attractive men myself.  :)

    ReplyDelete

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