Thursday, August 27, 2009
Apartheid, Apartheid, Everywhere- and not a sanction in sight
Critical analysis of Israeli apartheid has been making surprising media headway recently. With Israeli Professor Neve Gordon critiquing Israel's apartheid policies in The Los Angeles Times and YNet News, former UN Special Rapporteur on Human Rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territories John Dugard and American Jewish philanthropist Edgar Bronfman raising the specter of apartheid in in The Huffington Post, Israeli journalist Gideon Levy pointing out the apartheid implications of the Sheikh Jarrah evictions in Ha'aretz, and Alain Gresh of Le Monde Diplomatique exploring connections between apartheid-era South Africa and Israel, it's evident that more and more people around the world are becoming aware of the apartheid reality of Israel's policies toward Palestinians.
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This is ridiculous. They are simply thumbing their noses at Obama.
ReplyDeleteFreeze all aid to Israel.
Make it illegal for a U.S. citizen to travel to and visit, or live in an illegal settlement.
Residents of illegal settlements who hold dual citizenship must choose either to leave the settlements or renounce their U.S. citizenship.
Make it illegal for a U.S. citizen to raise funds or donate money for the purpose of aiding illegal settlements.
Maybe you should tell this to fleming, because on this I totally agree with you. :)
ReplyDeleteDruse diplomat supports FM criteria on service
ReplyDeleteAug. 26, 2009
Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman caused an uproar earlier this week when he suggested limiting his ministry's prestigious cadet course for new diplomats to individuals who served in the IDF or completed national service.
Politicians and the press took turns condemning Lieberman and accusing him of discrimination against non-Jews. But a Druse Foreign Ministry employee endorsed Lieberman's call in a letter circulated to ministry staff on Wednesday that was obtained by The Jerusalem Post.
"As someone who has served the state for 30 years, I agree with Lieberman," wrote Taher Munir, a reserve lieutenant colonel who works in the project department of the ministry's Middle East branch.
"It is difficult to explain the government's policies well and convincingly, and to be concerned about its interests, without being a partner to the obligations of the citizens to the state and its population," Munir added.
"This statement is not racist. It is a matter of partnership in the fate of the state and offering a modest contribution to the state's efforts to achieve a better and more serene life for its citizens."
Munir wrote that national service would strengthen the relationship between the citizens and the state, especially among minorities seeking equal rights. Therefore, he said he expected all Arab government employees to endorse Lieberman's idea.
Druse, unlike Arabs, traditionally serve in the IDF and volunteer for combat units in extraordinary numbers.
Lieberman's spokesman Tzahi Moshe declined to respond to Munir, saying that "the letter speaks for itself."
Asked if ministry staff agreed with recent calls to replace Lieberman, a Foreign Ministry official said the employees were divided. He explained that on the one hand, the staff feels marginalized because Lieberman is not taking part in the peace process or in Israel's relationship with the United States.
On the other hand, he said that Lieberman had brought the ministry extra funding and approval for additional diplomatic postings. He added that Lieberman makes a point of involving ministry staff in decisions and is hard-working.
The official noted that by contrast, Lieberman's predecessor Tzipi Livni, who led peace talks with the Palestinians, did not work as hard on the ministry's affairs, did not bring the ministry additional funding and did not involve ministry officials in her decision making.
VZA and I dont ALWAYS agree tgia. We believe in the legitimacy of actual debate (I know that makes you shudder)
ReplyDeleteHere is the thing: The USA is never going to "deliver" Israel, on a silver plate, to the Palestinians. NEVER. The sooner you realize that the better.
For Palestinians their favored model is South Africa, where Arpathied was overturned. I/We get that. But the same thing is not going to happen in Israel. The situations are very different. Unless you remember Africans having guns, rockets and suicide bombers, as well as wealthy donners?
So go ahead, continue to demonize, monsterize, villify , etc Israelis with fully/half made up stories, wild accusatuons and exaggerations -- and the occassional tidbit of reality. There has been so much hyperbole, americans now just tune it all out. And that is YOUR fault.
Until/unless we see arabs as MORE our friends than israelis, it aint gonna happen. Ever. Never.
vza, everything you proposed is the right way to go. Contrary to the rantings of certain know-nothing rightwingers, what will happen is that the U.S. will eventually realize that our fealty to Israel is costing us far more than it's netting us. That we're better off improving our relations with growing, newly energized, emerging democracies in the Middle East than we are continuing to prop up a shitty little country run by deranged murderers and certified nutballs that does nothing but constantly destabilize the region and threaten its neighbors...and whose citizens now openly express hatred and contempt for us.
ReplyDeleteMost sensible folks already know this, but as usual it will take a while for the politicians to catch up to the people. Perhaps a long while. That's where public pressure, especially in the form of BDS, comes in -- to push them closer to that realization. It's not about morals, for them -- it's about self-interest. When companies divested from South Africa it wasn't about a higher moral purpose, it was because they felt their bottom lines being threatened. The same can happen with Israel--indeed, it already is happening. It's just taking the U.S. a LOT longer than anyone else to follow suit.
But I have hope 8-) even if I didn't vote for Obama. When I first began talking about the Israeli-Palestinian situation 10 years ago, it was anathema to speak ill of Israel. Now, only neocons and moral degenerates support the SLC.
Sorry, I said "neocons and moral degenerates," which is a redudancy. My apologies.
ReplyDeleteClassic rant from the Dancing O. All the usual words, insults, threats, denigrations, etc. None of which have ever shown any power to sway broad public opinion. But I guess hope springs eternal for the DOs of the world - sort of like child suicide bombers in the Middle East?
ReplyDeleteDO does yet more spewing of assumed moral superiority. Good god, nothing makes me revile anyone or any cause more.
I have spoken to many people, casually, about Israel. The conversations are short. They say things like "I support Israel. We need them. Israel has to do what it has to do."
So sorry DO, to us you are the moral degenerate, you are the Cindy Sheehan types we will fight to our last breath to prevent you fom having any real influence in our beloved country. Your uber-liberal, Cynthia Mckiney voting mentality is so completely out of step in the US. It is considered representative of the ultimate low lifes of our society. Your day will NEVER come in the US.
BTW - If the "world" truly shared your opnion DO, dont you think they could have done away with Israel by now? The US is only 5% of total world population. Israel much less than that. If 95% of the world wants to make something happen, it can do so without the US. Are your facts way off? Or maybe the world doesnt really give a shit? It can only be one or the other. Afterall, the US is a rapidly declining power, right? If I were you I wouldnt hold my breath for that, though....
PS: Apologies accepted. Moral degenerates and infidels rule! LOL LOL LOL LOL
i just wrote a beautiful rebuttal on where all that aid money goes (which a certain commenter here loves to raise again and again) but jskit sabotaged me and i'm too tired to retype it.
ReplyDeletebtw, not only apartheid, but Che is everywhere here. in people's homes mostly, and I saw his image on part of the Wall today.
that was yasmine.
ReplyDeletethat was me, yasmin.
ReplyDeleteWhat I propose is not because I think Israel is a shitty little country or I think Israel should be destroyed. Israel needs to abide by the promises it made to the U.S. We deserve no less for steadfastly defending Israel..often to the detriment of our own interests! If Israel keeps its promises so that some sort of decent compromise can be made and the Palestinians also work in good faith, then a negotiated settlement is possible.
ReplyDeleteNothing can undo the mistakes of 60 odd years ago and it would be best for ALL concerned to realize the clock WILL NOT be turned back. Sadly, the Palestinians will not be the first people on this earth to have to settle for less than they deserve. All we need do is look at our Native Americans, and the Assyrians, Armenians, Sudanese, Tibetans, Berbers, Copts and assorted other powerless and displaced or subjugated peoples.
Ideally, one state for all the people should have been established after the British Mandate. It wasn't, and unless most of the people decide to do that now, it is pointless to think it will happen at all. Two states must be established and both sides must learn to live together and share resources.
Israel's continued theft of disputed land clearly contradicts its repeated claims that it wants peace. Placing new restrictions on people who are clearly just trying to go about their daily lives also does nothing to boost confidence that Israel is playing an honest hand.
You have to have facts when you debate fleming, something you and your butt buddy lack most of the time
ReplyDelete<span>"Unless you remember Africans having guns, rockets and suicide bombers, as well as wealthy donners?"</span>
ReplyDelete<span>this is what I mean, you have no facts fleming, very sad...
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<span>Until/unless we see arabs as MORE our friends than israelis, it aint gonna happen. </span>
ReplyDelete-------------
That's it folks. It's here..For fleming It's has never been a question of right and wrong or standing up fpr justice, it's just that the Palestinians aren't MORE our friends than the Israelis!! What does this say about this shithead?
So if a judge is a better friend of a criminal than he is with his victim than there's no moral problem here to innocent the criminal and condemn the victim...Sure shithead!!
<span><span>Until/unless we see arabs as MORE our friends than israelis, it aint gonna happen. </span>
ReplyDelete-------------
That's it folks. It's here..For fleming It's has never been a question of right and wrong or standing up fpr justice, it's just that the Palestinians aren't MORE our friends than the Israelis!! What does this say about this shithead?
So if a judge is a better friend with a criminal than he is with his victim than there are no moral qualms here to let the criminal off the hook and condemn the victim!...</span>
<span>Sure shithead!!</span>
Yeah but I still think Israel is a little shitty country. An ethnocracy and a racist state from the very beginning...It's a birth defect...
ReplyDeleteAren't "high moral standards" supposed to be included in the kit of a rightwing type of upbringing?
ReplyDeleteThey are murderous "buddies"
ReplyDeleteChe is now omnipresent...lol It is good to be somewhere where Che is revered, that may mean people are aware of justice, social justice.
ReplyDelete<span>"Sadly, the Palestinians will not be the first people on this earth to have to settle for less than they deserve."</span>
ReplyDeleteOh, is that so vza? How much MORE do the Palestinians have to give, should they just lay down and die? Come on Palestinians, you lost everything, BUT you must give up more - because the poor fascist Zionist, who have support in the billions need more, look at the sadness in their little faces...
Kiss my ass vza
Give some more Palestinians, to these fucking privileged assholes from the USA, they need your help. Lay down on the ground while they not only walk over you, but stamp on your bodies and grinf your faces in the mud. You should be happy to give more to these religious freaks, this collective band of sadists and thieves - think carefully now, have you given enough yet? >:o
ReplyDeleteCongrats tgia, you have upgraded your verbal sparring to include the term of "shithead". Marcatu would be impressed. LOL
ReplyDeleteYou couch it in terms of right and wrong but AMERICANS (not just me) do not see it as such. Americans perceive Israel as being a well governed, well organized, pro-american, rule of law, ecomically vibrant, structured society with behavioral norms much like their own, including a uniformed military. Meanwhile the Palestinians are viewded as (mostly) ungoverned, chaotic, anti-american, economically dependent, thuggish/lawless (the guys in control wear masks and carry AKs), not to mention rocket firing/suicide bombing terrorism enthusiasts.
So yea, it seems we have lots more in common with Israel. I dont know why you CANT get this.
PS: I know you will now "blame" Israel and the US for all of Palestine's troubles. Boring! And we dont buy it, sorry,
PSS: The ultimate morality is the advancement of the human condition - whether through science, technology, medical advances, engineering, economic achievements or otherwise. When was the last time any of the above was achieved in your part of the world? And using oil money to build tall buildings doesnt count....
Sure shithead..
ReplyDelete<span>Kiss my ass vza</span>
ReplyDeleteAh, what would I do without the boy anarchist's witty rejoinders?
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So that's where they got the idea of executing their fellow Palestinians who belong to rival factions =-O .
ReplyDelete<span>Che is now omnipresent...lol It is good to be somewhere where Che is revered, that may mean people are aware of justice, social justice.</span>
ReplyDelete<span>So that's where they got the idea of executing their fellow Palestinians who belong to rival factions =-O .</span>
Kiss my ass vza
ReplyDeleteAh...where would I be without anarchist boy's witty rejoinders?
How that for a dialog?
ReplyDeleteThat's all the dialog you'll get from me today!
ReplyDeleteThe fact is that you like using the propaganda horse shit of the Palestinians givng, when it is the Zionists stealing. No one is giving up anything, it is being taken. The Palestinians are already in step with th recognized position of the international community, it is the Zionists which refuse to recognize where the world stands. It is a matter of might is right, rather than any legitimacy. So there is no giving going on, there has been recognition of where the world community has stood, and everything else is nothing but theft.
ReplyDeleteNo, that is where the factions you really support, the USA and their Zionist partners tried to circumvent the democratic process by bringing butchers and murderers to work their will (Fatah). After they do this they get a group of willing dunces like you vza, to point and ignorantly gawk and make your stupid "observations." You always please them, as you make your token comments like you really support the Palestinian people as a backdrop.
ReplyDeleteI think America should hep Palestine. However, I am not sure Palestine should expect any other country, except for maybe Arab countries to help them. I also think it is unfair and unrealistic for Palestinians to believe they are entitled to American support. However, America should support them none the less.
ReplyDeleteYeah right anand, fuck you - America helped to destroy Palestine, it aided the Zionists, but they have no obligation to the Palestinians. Really sound logic anand and morally upstanding, not. Than again, I do not expect anything else out of you - you're not capable of morally sound or just decisions.
ReplyDeleteThe US have immensly contributed to create this mess by siding totally and unconditionally behing Israel. For decades the international community as a whole were condemning Israel for its occupation and were asking it to stop the theft...Only the US, (backed by the glorious stated of Micronesia) opposed the resolutions and vetoes them. Nobody is expecting charity...Fix the damn shit you created!
ReplyDelete<span>Not this again!</span>
ReplyDelete<span>The US have immensly contributed to create this mess by siding totally and unconditionally behing Israel. For decades the international community as a whole was condemning Israel for its occupation and was asking it to stop the theft...Only the US, (backed by the glorious stated of nobody is asking for charity...Fix the damn mess you created!</span>
<span>I also think it is unfair and unrealistic for Palestinians to believe they are entitled to American support.</span>
ReplyDelete<span><span>--------------</span></span>
<span><span>Not again!</span>
<span>The US have immensly contributed to create this mess by siding totally and unconditionally behing Israel. For decades the international community as a whole was condemning Israel for its occupation and was asking it to stop the theft...Only the US, (backed by the glorious stated of nobody is asking for charity...Fix the damn mess you created!</span></span>
<span><span>I also think it is unfair and unrealistic for Palestinians to believe they are entitled to American support.</span>
ReplyDelete<span><span>--------------</span></span>
<span><span>Not again!</span>
<span>The US have immensly contributed to create this mess by siding totally and unconditionally behing Israel. For decades the international community as a whole was condemning Israel for its occupation and was asking it to stop the theft...Only the US, (backed by the glorious state of Micronesia) opposed and vetoed all resolution condemning Israel..</span></span></span>
<span><span><span> So nobody is asking for charity...Fix the damn mess you created!</span></span></span>
Howq many times do I have to say it? The US does not "owe" Palestine jack squat. We will never "deliver" Israel to Palestine. Israel is there to stay, and that is that.
ReplyDeleteAnd BTW, no amount of name calling, insults, cultural denigrations, threats, moral preening, etc. is going to change american minds. I mean, duh, why would it? LOL
<span>Howq many times do I have to say it?</span>
ReplyDelete------------
As much as you want my friend, as much as you want... Keep repeating it until you become blue in the face..I'm not losing sleep over it..Far from it! Bonne nuit!
On the current course flamingass, Israel will deliver itself without the help of the USA
ReplyDeleteYeah, I think the end of the SLC as it's currently constituted is starting to look like a realistic possibility. Israel has basically committed suicide, the two state solution is dead, nobody trusts Israel anymore or really believes that it wants "peace."
ReplyDeleteBTW did anyone adjust fleming's meds today? Seems unusually incoherent today even for a wingnut.
Shomron: We'll be Glad to Take Ethiopian Kids from Petach Tikva
ReplyDelete:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
I think that Palestinians should press America to be neutral, including by cutting aid off to Israel. But I don't think Palestinians should expect any country except for maybe their Arab neighbors to help them.
ReplyDeleteEven though I think America should help Palestine, I am not sure Palestinians help matters if they publicly insist that America owes them (beyond being neutral in UNSC votes, US public statements, and US foreign aid.) Amereicans might be less likely to aid Palestine in that case.
Ooooh, the favorite lefty insult: "wingnut". Im crushed. LOL
ReplyDeleteThing is, far lefty types make even the craziest wingers look sane. Gosh DO, thrown animal blood on a fur wear lately? Spit on a US soldier back from Iraq? Given money to a pro-terrorist charity? Shouted down someone who dared disagree with your socialist agenda???
Was I clear enough above DO, or are smaller words necessary?
The two state solution is your only hope - the only other is the zero state.
Fleming's passionate defense of Israel is actually pretty amusing when you remember that he really does not give a shit about Israel and that he will switch sides the moment he feels doing that would be more profitable for him.
ReplyDeleteCounting on the loyalty of people like Fleming is a big mistake for Zionists. The ONLY people who can provide legitimacy, peace and security for the Jewish community in the Mideast are the Palestinians(The U.N. can't do it, Obama can't do it, the King of Jordan can't do it, and some puppet picked by Israel to rule over Palestine can't do it). And the only way Zionists can get the Palestian people to do this is to come to terms with what they they have done to the Palestinian people and to make a good faith effort to make ammends..
Once again Joe thinks he is insulting me, but I consider what he said a compliment. :)
ReplyDeleteBut sadly he is rather mistaken. I do not personally profit from Israel. If only. LOL And I will not be "switching sides" on a whim. Regardless, the chances of Palestine somehow proving a "more profitable ally" than Israel in the next 10,000 years are slim and none. And if anybody thinks Palestine can intimidate or browbeat the US into doing what it wants, they are watching too many hollywood movies, LOL
Also, what many dont realize is how the Israelis have been boxed into a corner. They cannot show the slightest weakness, a tinge of regret, or offer any kind of apology, whatsoever. For to do so whould mean an instant barage of attacks, both physical and financial, and threaten their very existence. The actions of the Palestinians have created an enemy 1,000 times more deadly than they would ever have been had they just gone along with things. So yes indeedee, the degraded situation is actually primarily the fault of Palestinians.
<span>"Fleming's passionate defense of Israel is actually pretty amusing when you remember that he really does not give a shit about Israel and that he will switch sides the moment he feels doing that would be more profitable for him."
ReplyDelete</span>
So true - well said!
I responded to this once before but it "disappeared". Is that you trying to denigrate me Joe, saying Im all about evil profits? Aww, boohooo for you-you. Yes, I do love me some capitalism - and I will shout it from the tree tops, no need to "expose" me. LOL
ReplyDeleteBut I do love Israel. Precisely because people here hate it so!! HAHAHAHHA