Chicagotribune
11 June 2009
By Mustafa Barghouthi
Throughout decades of struggle for Palestinian freedom, there has been little cause for optimism. Today, I am optimistic.
President Barack Obama’s speech in Cairo last week was the most compelling I have ever heard from an American president. He articulated an understanding of the roots of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict that we have not heard from previous American presidents. By acknowledging the legitimate aspirations of Palestinians for freedom, dignity and a state of our own, Obama has shown that he may have what it takes to provide the constructive, evenhandedpeace-brokering that past American efforts lacked.
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I very much like and trust Mustapha Barghouthi, but I have to admit I still have too much skepticism to feel optimistic ...
ReplyDeleteMe too. I wish I could be as optimistic as he is, but I'm not.
ReplyDeleteIs this is the Barghouti I like? The one whose clips TGIA has linked to in his articles?
ReplyDeleteI hope that the Fatah and Hamas thugs get kicked out and Barghouti leads the Palestinian authority.
I have already made comments about this, so I will hold my piece.
ReplyDeleteBarghouti is not a cynic but a forward thinking optimistic man whose whole life has been devoted to working for his people in solid, constructive ways.
ReplyDeleteWell I do not recall reading your comments, so would you be kind enough to repeat them for me?
ReplyDeleteHow long has Barghouthi addressed these issues? No one ever listens to him, among these players. What has has to do is become part of a ground swell in a global sense. Some of his statements, like this current post seem so naive - but I know what he is doing. None of the oppressors in the region nor the ruling hegemony will ever listen to him so that he will grow in stature - the last thing the powers that be want is a sane looking Palestinian spokesperson.
ReplyDeleteHow long has Barghouthi addressed these issues? No one ever listens to him, among these players. What he has to do is become part of a ground swell in a global sense. Some of his statements, like this current post seem so naive - but I know what he is doing. None of the oppressors in the region nor the ruling hegemony will ever listen to him so that he will grow in stature - the last thing the powers that be want is a sane looking Palestinian spokesperson.
ReplyDeleteOne has to give his people some hope if he perceives one. Otherwise it's all gloom and doom. As far as I'm concerned I don't see where the optimisim is stemming from.. The Israelis are masters at delaying and wasting time and they're going to do just that for 2, 3 years waiting for the elections when Obama will busy with something else and if this is not the scenario which is going to take place, I'm ready to grow a moustache!!!
ReplyDeleteBTW, I heard that moustaches are back in frigging Hollywood! Signor Pitt is leading the way! When young and in the movie buisness I used to have one and I was amply used as an Omar Sharif look alike until I got sick of the silly stuff under my nose and had my career ruined in the process.
ReplyDeleteI posted a comment here and it disappeared. We';re still having problems as it seems!
ReplyDeleteIt was a photo of myself with a moustache!!! The system wanted to spare you the agony,hehe!
ReplyDeletethe mustache. oh no!!! lolol
ReplyDeletehttp://www.thefishhawk.com/The%20Team%20Page/Mustache.jpg
I agree, the last thing the powers that be want is a truly non-corrupted moderate...
ReplyDeleteHere------------->
ReplyDeleteewwww....this picture reminded me a bit like the women who like to grow their nails too long..
ReplyDeletehttp://www.metacafe.com/watch/700162/longest_finger_nails_in_the_world/
Actually thes woman to me is also kind of creepy looking...
Yes, and just in case people cannot put two and two together - it is in Israel and the reigning hegemony's interest in displaying people who look out of control. They usually do this by showing the after effect of an atrocity the Zionists commit, that is the reaction without the cause. Leaving the entire background from the scenario of what is taking place in Palestine and showing the agry people, etc.
ReplyDeleteWhat a star!
ReplyDeleteBelieve it or not. The day I shaved the damn thing I started to get fewer and fewer jobs. I got myself busy doing art and did not look back. I still have some regrets though. My most beautiful and cherished memories are of the time when I was either on stage or in front of the camera. Oh, well.
ReplyDeleteFrom the same movie.
ReplyDeletekind of creepy? kind of creepy??
ReplyDeleteIt is so very very weird!!!
TGIA, you had a movie career? How cool is that!!
ReplyDeleteWhat was the movie? Is that you standing next to the stairs? It's too small to see very well.
I've never been crazy about Brad Pitt. Daniel Craig, now that is a great looking guy. Not really handsome either.
I mean, Daniel Craig doesn't have male-model type good looks.
ReplyDeleteBack in the 70s the local baseball team -- Oakland A's -- all grew mustaches. That was their heyday.
Does anyone have an opinion about mac laptops? I have a hard-to-explain desire to go buy one tomorrow.
VAA is Mac crazy...Wait a bit and he may pop out!
ReplyDeleteAnn
ReplyDeleteI can't give you the title. That'd be a give away of my ID, but it was the first pro Palestinian movie to be made in Europe. Yes I had a starring part. Sorry for the small photos but I reduced them on purpose. Still, if you click on them they're big enough.
I have a hard-to-explain desire to go buy one tomorrow.
ReplyDelete--------------
Not the first time I hear this. A friend just couldn't wait!!!! He rushed to buy one when he could wait a bit and get a much better price. Not that he was rich or anything, just enamoured woith the thing!
I posted a comment but it's gone!!!! Arggg!.
ReplyDeleteHere again...
Ann would be a give away of my ID, but it was the first pro Palestinian movie to be made in Europe by Europeans. Yes I had a starring part. Sorry for the small photos but I reduced them on purpose. Still, if you click on them they're big enough.
I posted a comment but it's gone!!!! Arggg!.
ReplyDeleteHere again...
The mousched fellow, yes. I can't give you the title that would be a give away of my ID, but it was the first pro Palestinian movie to be made in Europe by Europeans. Yes I had a starring part. Sorry for the small photos but I reduced them on purpose. Still, if you click on them they're big enough.
I posted a comment but it's gone!!!! Arggg!.
ReplyDeleteHere again...
The moustached fellow, yes. I can't give you the title that would be a give away of my ID, but it was the first pro Palestinian movie to be made in Europe by Europeans. Yes I had a starring part. Sorry for the small photos but I reduced them on purpose. Still, if you click on them they're big enough.
I posted a comment but it's gone!!!! Arggg!.
ReplyDeleteHere again...
The moustached fellow, yes. I can't give you the title that would be a give away of my ID, but it was the first pro Palestinian movie to be made in Europe by Europeans. Yes I had a starring part. Sorry for the small photos but I reduced them on purpose. Still, if you click on them(after you opened them) they're big enough.
Yes, but did you notice that he was given a lot of air time in the U.S. during the attack on Gaza? He was interviewed on all of the cable stations on the radio, and he had op-eds in numerous newspapers. That was a big change here.
ReplyDeleteBut I do agree, Israel does not want someone like Barghouti to win. Neither do the powers that be ( to borrow a phrase from V!) in Palestine. They do not want the gravy train of corruption to get stalled by someone who acually would use the E.U. and U.S. aid money for what it was intended...building infrastructure and helping the people.
Wow! Who is that handsome guy with the scarf? Were you paying the role of George Habash?
ReplyDeleteNot Habash but very close..CHUUUUUT!
ReplyDeleteBTW, the scarf is actually a keffiyah.
ReplyDeleteBTW, the scarf is actually a keffiyah. It's hard to tell.
ReplyDeleteShhh? Okay, keep your secerts!
ReplyDeleteYes, I thought that was a Palestinian keffiyah.
In looking back on all of the hijackings by Palestinian freedom fighters, they always separated their hostages into Jews and Gentiles NOT Israelis and Gentiles. That sort of contradicts the claim that the fight was against Zionism and not all Jews.
Shhh? Okay, keep your secrets!
ReplyDeleteYes, I thought that was a Palestinian keffiyah.
In looking back on all of the hijackings by Palestinian freedom fighters, they always separated their hostages into Jews and Gentiles NOT Israelis and Gentiles. That sort of contradicts the claim that the fight was against Zionism and not all Jews.
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" font-family: Arial;">Speaking of movies, I like the new terminator. But here‘s an interesting review. </span>
ReplyDelete<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #2b2c2e; font-family: Arial;"> </span>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #2b2c2e; font-family: Arial;">'Terminator' movies promote leader worship syndrome</span>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #2b2c2e; font-family: Arial;">By Gabriel Matthew Schivone </span>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #2b2c2e; font-family: Arial;">June 10, 2009</span>
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" "> </span>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #2b2c2e; font-family: Arial;">“…its plot is so hopelessly leader-oriented that, subliminally, the audience, if they behave and don't ask questions, are converted into uncritical simpletons who can do no better than presume as fact that the history (and thereby future) of resistance movements is actually like this, where the fate of the many always rests on a singularly gifted one or precious few persons. This suggests that resistance, or indeed any social movement, has a linear path in space and time, and is an embodiment of itself that is so fixed and defined that simply murdering the so-called leader(s) of the movement will bring about the movement's downfall…Well, I don't buy it. No thinking person would. Anarchists would tell us different, and I think they have something there. In fact, radicals of all varieties - communists, revolutionary democrats (circa 18th-19th century, alas), libertarian socialists, etc. - would remind us that if you kill a resistance fighter, or leader or organizer - in the words of freedom fighter Victor Laszlo in Michael Curtiz's "Casablanca" (1943) - "hundreds, thousands would rise to take our places." This is because resistance is organic. And when undertaken by a mass popular movement of people against a monstrous evil, it is insuperable, and ultimately unstoppable.” </span>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #2b2c2e; font-family: Arial;"> </span>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #2b2c2e; font-family: Arial;">http://www.uwire.com/Article.aspx?id=4135694</span>
At the time when highjacking was a mode of operation few resistance fighters sat down and pondered the question of discrimination between Jews and Zionists. They used to view them as same. But things have tremendsously changed with the constant flux of information about those Jews who opposed Zionism and occupation. Palestinians were discovering like many around the world that effectively not all Jews are Zionists and not all Jews are occupiers.
ReplyDeleteToday, to say that their claims of fighting Zionism is contradicted by their past actions is wrong.
That sort of contradicts the claim that the fight was against Zionism and not all Jews.
ReplyDelete----------------
So what is it that you want to say? That they were driven by racism and not to recover their rights? Is that so?
Look, things aren't that black and white picture you're painting here. At the time when highjacking was a mode of operation few resistance fighters sat down and thouroughly pondered the question of discrimination between Jews and Zionists. They used to view them as same. The European/American Zionist who's a Jew came to steal their lands. To think of it otherwise would have necessitated a comprehensive political knowledge and understanding that many could not have had. But things have tremendsously changed with the constant flux of information about those Jews who were not associated with Zionism and who opposed Zionism and occupation. Palestinians were discovering like many others around the world that effectively not all Jews are Zionists and not all Jews are occupiers.
Today, to say that their claims of fighting Zionism is contradicted by their past actions is wrong because ultimately the fight as you know is against the occupation not against a specific religion! Any other understanding of the conflict(racism motivated) is absurd!
Do you think that if the occupier was not a Jew but a Christian or Hindu they would have acted in a different manner? Do you think that their motivation is the hatred for the Jew?? Are we at this level of understanding of the conflict?? Weren't the resistance fighters as much Christian as they were Muslims? G.Habash N.Hawatmeh, two of the major branches of the resistance whgo were involved in the highjacking activities were Christians.
ReplyDeleteThat sort of contradicts the claim that the fight was against Zionism and not all Jews.
ReplyDelete----------------
So what is it that you want to say? That they were driven by racism and not to recover their rights? Is that so?
Look, things aren't that black and white picture you're painting here. At the time when highjacking was a mode of operation few resistance fighters sat down and thouroughly pondered the question of discrimination between Jews and Zionists. They used to view them as same. The European/American Zionist who's a Jew came to steal their lands. To think of it otherwise would have necessitated a comprehensive political knowledge and understanding that many could not have had in the same way they do today!! . But things have tremendsously changed with the constant flux of information about those Jews who were not associated with Zionism and who opposed Zionism and occupation. Palestinians were discovering like many others around the world that effectively not all Jews are Zionists and not all Jews are occupiers.
Today, to say that their claims of fighting Zionism is contradicted by their past actions is wrong because ultimately the fight as you know is against the occupation not against a specific religion! Any other understanding of the conflict(racism motivated) is absurd!
Do you think that if the occupier was not a Jew but a Christian or Hindu they would have acted in a different manner? Do you think that their motivation is the hatred for the Jew?? Are we at this level of understanding of the conflict?? Weren't the resistance fighters as much Christian as they were Muslims? G.Habash N.Hawatmeh, two leadres of the major branches of the resistance whgo were involved in the highjacking activities were Christians.
ReplyDelete"Do you think that if the occupier was not a Jew but a Christian or Hindu they would have acted in a different manner?"
ReplyDeleteOf course not but then I would ask the same question if the hijackers separated all Christians, Hindus, etc in the same way they separated Jews and Gentiles.
I do not know what the religion of the hijackers has to do with anything but obviously the religion of the hostages had everything to do with it.
"To think of it otherwise would have necessitated a comprehensive political knowledge and understanding that many could not have had in the same way they do today"
The hijackings did not take place in the Middle Ages, tgia. I think your excuse of "the times" rings a bit hollow. They had to know that not all Jews were Zionists. I think it was a deliberate targeting of Jews. period.
Note carefully how vza must scurry off and gain more so-called ammuniation of accusations, anything to try to poison the true reasons for resistance. Why do you suppose she does this? By the way, those were really good rebuttal points TGIA. Than again it might not be vza, but someone pretending to be her, only TGIA can see the address of the poster.
ReplyDeleteHowever, there were other reasons for this activity. The Zionists and their supporters have so buried the true reasons and activity of the colonial murderous occupation - by both propaganda of the worse sort, as well as silence, that these individuals were desperate to try to bring it to center stage for exposure. Right or wrong, this is what always happens when such horrid practices and such pervasive support and deflection methods are used to silence or spoil what is taking place.
Than you have their diehard supporters, like vza, who always tries to twist their way out of reality. The Palestinian plight is not driven by racism - this does not mean that racism does not raise its head, but it is not nor will it ever be the major motivating factor for the resistance. Contrary to Zionist and Zionist supporters that are so desparate that they grasp at any straw of an "argument" to sow seeds of doubt.
Note carefully how vza must scurry off and gain more so-called ammunition of accusations, anything to try to poison the true reasons for resistance. Why do you suppose she does this? By the way, those were really good rebuttal points TGIA. Than again it might not be vza, but someone pretending to be her, only TGIA can see the address of the poster.
ReplyDeleteHowever, there were other reasons for this activity. The Zionists and their supporters have so buried the true reasons and activity of the colonial murderous occupation - by both propaganda of the worse sort, as well as silence, that these individuals were desperate to try to bring it to center stage for exposure. Right or wrong, this is what always happens when such horrid practices and such pervasive support and deflection methods are used to silence or spoil what is taking place.
Than you have their diehard supporters who always try to twist their way out of reality. The Palestinian plight is not driven by racism - this does not mean that racism does not raise its head occasionally in a minor fashion, but it is not nor will it ever be the major motivating factor for the resistance. Contrary to Zionist and Zionist supporters that are so desperate that they grasp at any straw of an "argument" to sow seeds of doubt.
Hey, I stand corrected (maybe) vza has "answered." Therefore the full force of my arguments for vza's constant twisting stands. I think it also shows that the "sympathy" she feigns for the Palestinian cause is suspect, as I have said on a few other occasions. In other words, this has not been the first time a thin reed argument has been used by her, and after so many times it begins to strain the bonds of credulity.
ReplyDeleteBy the way vza, if they were not Israelis, lets say at Entebbe, than why did the ISREALI forces step in? Also, how did the hostages return to TEL AVIV airport? Actually the majority were Israeli, and how were the hijackers supposed to know who was whom? Crumble crumble, it all falls down
ReplyDeleteBy the way vza, if they were not Israelis, lets say at Entebbe, than why did the ISREALI forces step in? Also, how did the hostages return to TEL AVIV airport? Actually the majority were Israeli, and how were the hijackers supposed to know who was whom? Crumble crumble, it all falls down. I am afraid you swallow to much incki wicki-pedia horse shit, that has Zionist inroads.
ReplyDeleteThe question was about the movement then, v. A simple question after I had read an article about how they separated their hostages into Jews and Gentiles.
ReplyDeleteI just do not understand the over the top reaction from you guys every tiime there is the least bit of questioning of the "narrative" of the Palestinian resistance. I got the same horrified and irritated reaction on another blog this week, this one Pro-Israel, when I questioned their"narrative" of the goings on of the settlers and the military. The same SHOCK that I would dare to question any aspect of the sacred narrative.
I am willing to listen to other points of view and I am willing to be educated but I tell you these outbursts are ridiculous. I am scurrying off to gather ammunition to poison the true reasons of the resistance? Wow! Little old me has that kind of power? To cast doubt? Amazing!
"they separated their hostages into Jews and Gentiles."
ReplyDeleteDid they kill them?
Well, at least we know where you go to get your bullshit that falls apart with a tiny puff of air. Operation Jonatan is not that hard to discern when you realise that the manifest showed a good number of Israeli Jews on board.
ReplyDeleteThe point is not the "simple question," if is the repeated form of the questions and trying to defend a pile of rotten eggs. It is not "our reaction" that is in question here, but why you repeatedly bring up this nonsense - YOU BROUGHT IT UP NOT US. There is no "narrative" involved, there is only the REALITY of what is taking place - do you think the facts can be manipulated by a narrative, and if it is merely a "narrative," well than we know how badly you take facts that contradict your repeatedly displayed sentiments.
"Listening" to other points of view is one thing, trying to present them contrary to the facts on the ground as a possible reality is entirely another matter. But that again you know that, and constantly practice the latter.
Oh lord. Unbelievable. I have great sympathy for the Palestinians but I have never said I buy the whole cloth. I have never made a secret of that, either. Why not just add an introductory paragraph to this blog:
ReplyDeleteGentle Reader, all ye who enter here MUST agree in total with the accepted and approved Palestinian narrative.(We reserve the right to decide what that is, by the way!) If you find that you are unable to endorse all aspects of this narrative, we will not ban you (Except when we feel like doing so) but be prepared to be treated accordingly. (We get to decide what that will be, too!)
Last, Air France flight 139 ORIGINATED IN TEL AVIV. The Jews boarded from Israel - do you think they were in the vicinity to visit the Palestinians from other areas? No, they were Zionists, either sympathtic to Zionism or rank Zionists.
ReplyDeleteThe famous line from the Holocaust survivor who claimd he was not a Nazi but an "idealist", why do you think he made that claim? It was already flying through the region of Palestine from years of abuse and oppression that the Zionists had learned a lot from the Nazis - by how they were treating the Palestinians.
I mean, arguments like yours vza, are made from the least information possible. It is just how you grasp on to them and defend them as almost "gospel" that makes you the object of these responses you decry.
Leon Klinghoffer was not Israeli. He was a disabled, retired appliance dealer from the east coast of the United States. He was shot twice and shoved overboard while still alive. He was Jewish.
ReplyDeleteYes yes, and this represents all of the Palestinian cause as racism vza. Dance on the head of a pin for an encore? Yes the Zionists try to get a lot of milage out of this one, is it now your turn in the face of so many atrocities committed against the Palestinians? Stoop low vza, its all you have
ReplyDeleteIts amazing vza, I have said this same thing to fleming, sweden, etc. - it is amazing where the ignorant will go when those who are the "experts" fear to tread because they end up decimated in argument. So here we are again, and I will use the same link for a silly anaology ,and in case there is any question in your mind vza, you represent the "subdued" one...LOL
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #404040; font-family: Verdana;">"He was shot twice and shoved overboard while still alive. He was Jewish."</span>
ReplyDelete<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #404040; font-family: Verdana;"> </span>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #404040; font-family: Verdana;">I deplore the crime. </span><span style=" color: #2b2c2e; font-family: Arial;"></span>
So do I r.s.
ReplyDeleteFirst Jewish hostage killed: Klinghoffer
ReplyDeleteSecond .. .. .. ?
Third .. .. .. ?
So many!
Jemmy Hope, demoted to Guest.
Look vza, a majority of Jews until recently have been Zionists were blindly supporting Israel...Who could tell the difference between Jews and Zionists when they were so closely interlinked? Only until recently has the distinction between non-Zionist Jews and Zionist Jews become more obvious...
ReplyDeleteAnd so do I....
ReplyDeleteFor those of you who think, you know..., capitalism isn't THAT weird...
ReplyDelete<object width="100" height="100">
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Ha! This is the opposite of what TGIA told me. Marion, are you alright?
ReplyDeleteDo you think that most Jews have a clue about what is happening in Palestine? Most Jews have busy lives and know next to nothing about Palestine.
Marion, what is a "zionist?" Genuine question. I don't know the meaning of zionist either.
VZA, these "Palestinian freedom fighters" were terrorists. They were scum. The large majority of Palestinians hated them. So did everyone else. These crazies are nothing like the rest of the Palestinian people. They aren't part of any "resistance movement." They are subhuman slime.
ReplyDeleteMost Palestinians deplore all violence against all civilians. I think that most Palestinians only want their own rights; and don't want to fight Israelis or anyone else. Am I correct in this view?
TGIA, there is a lot of hope. Palestine can become much richer and more successful than Dubai or Hong Kong. Hold on to the faith.
ReplyDeleteListen you fucking twit (Anand), everyone knows what is going on in Palestine among those in Israel. What do you think it is, some massive territory? Bugger off idiot.
ReplyDeleteI am also tired vza of your horse shit about nothing being built in the occupied territories - IT HAS BEEN REBUILT A HALF A DOZEN TIMES TWIT! IT IS DESTROYED CONSISTENTLY BY THE FUCKING ZIONISTS. If you do not know what you are posting about shut up.
ReplyDeleteThis does not mean that there has been no theft, but nothing to the degree you are espousing. Only ZIONISTS use this fucking defleted argument, what does this say about what you post?
I am also tired vza of your horse shit about nothing being built in the occupied territories - IT HAS BEEN REBUILT A HALF A DOZEN TIMES TWIT! IT IS DESTROYED CONSISTENTLY BY THE FUCKING ZIONISTS. If you do not know what you are posting about shut up.
ReplyDeleteThis does not mean that there has been no theft, but nothing to the degree you are espousing. Only ZIONISTS use this fucking deflated argument, what does this say about what you post?
Fuck you Anand, you know absolutely nothing about these men or what they have done and not done. You are awfully "adept" at making half-assed statements that have no basis in facts, just like your little buddy vza. There were definitely some mistakes made, and the overall strategy was never implemented properly during the Habash years - but the intention and direction was spot on for the time. Everything and I mean everything they said was going to happen has come to pass in regard to the condition of the Palestinians - that is because they really KNEW the enemy, and the depth of their debauchery. Something you are unable and unwilling to admit, and because of this, anything you say about this is tainted and pure bunk.
ReplyDeleteI never doubted that you do and I don't doubt that most Paletininans do, too.
ReplyDeleteExcuse me, but when did I say NOTHING has been built? Not nearly enough has been built considering the amounts donated by the EU and the U.S.
ReplyDeleteNow, your line is that here was some theft but not that much? Oh Lord. You are ridiculous.
You know what is interesting vza when you first started saying you were "learning something" about this subject, and "suddenly" your eyes were opened, as it were, you mentioned the Kinghoffer as part of the endless loop recording that was played before your eyes, saying that this was all you essentially knew - but you were "awakening" as it were. Whats the matter, are you reverting back to what you confessed to be a one sided propaganda blitz which you recognized, of which Klinghoffer was part of?
ReplyDeleteThats right vza, even if you don't remember what I consider to be your fake confessions, I do - it is part of having an almost photographic memory (I could probably dig it up and re-post it for you, if you want to get nasty and deny it). In other words, I consider you to be vacillating and disingenuous character - just thought I would spell it out for you.
Oh I am wounded. Truly wounded. I am flattered you spend so much time trying to discern the sincerity of my comments.
ReplyDeletePerhaps your photographic memory failed you this time? Scroll BACK( Just a teeny, tiny way back) to where r.s. asked, "Did they kill them?" Now, what was I supposed to say, genius, NO? THAT is why I brought up Klinghoffer.
You truly do go overboard. Perhaps you need some other interests in life, kiddo.
VZA, these "Palestinian freedom fighters" were terrorists. They were scum.
ReplyDelete------------
What on frigging earth are you talking about??? What authorises you to make such despicable statements?. No one was giving a shit about what had become of the Palestinians if those resistance fighters did not stand up and make the world notice their plight with actions that might be reprehensible in ways but no other humans on earth have ever conducted a struggle against oppression and occupation with spilling blood jusaly or injustly?? And don't give us crap abot the Dalai Lama or Martin luther King's anti violence bullshit because as we know nothing ever works with the Israelis who absolutely wanted the land and are today as we speak killing anti violent protestors in Bilin!!
VZA, these "Palestinian freedom fighters" were terrorists. They were scum.
ReplyDelete------------
What on frigging earth are you talking about??? What authorises you to make such despicable statements?. No one was giving a shit about what had become of the Palestinians if those resistance fighters did not stand up and make the world notice their plight with actions that might be reprehensible in ways but no other humans on earth have ever conducted a struggle against oppression and occupation without spilling blood jusaly or injustly?? And don't give us crap abot the Dalai Lama or Martin luther King's anti violence bullshit because as we know nothing ever works with the Israelis who absolutely wanted the land and are today as we speak killing anti violent protestors in Bilin!!
VZA, these "Palestinian freedom fighters" were terrorists. They were scum.
ReplyDelete------------
What on frigging earth are you talking about??? What authorises you to make such despicable statements?. No one was giving a shit about what had become of the Palestinians if those resistance fighters did not stand up and make the world notice their plight with actions that might be reprehensible in ways but no other humans on earth have ever conducted a struggle against oppression and occupation without spilling blood justly or unjustly?? And don't give us crap abot the Dalai Lama or Martin luther King's anti violence bullshit because as we know nothing ever works with the Israelis who absolutely wanted the land and are today as we speak killing anti violent protestors in Bilin!!
Ha! This is the opposite of what TGIA told me. Marion, are you alright?
ReplyDelete-------------
What, again, are you talking about? Most Jews were standing behind Israel after 1967 and that "divine victory" shit!!! Many later who became aware of the racist nature of Zionism and its crimes against humanity changed course and criticised Israel and backed the Palestinians. I had never ever said anything different. Not to you and not to anyone else!
what is a "zionist?"
ReplyDelete--------------
Google ?!
Why did you demote yourself Jemmy? You seam to be unhappy about something. What is it exactly?
ReplyDeleteseem not seam.
ReplyDeleteNo, you just full of stupid assumptions vza - no facts, and you call me ridiculous? One has only to match the funds with supposed accounts to see that it is an insignificant fraction of the money. Of course, corruptly stolen money, but nevertheless chump change compared to what has been invested and destroyed by the Zionists you seem bent on denfending.
ReplyDeleteHey Anand, do you want to know what a Zionist is, look in the mirror fuck face
ReplyDelete<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #2b2c2e; font-family: Arial;"> </span><span style=" color: black; font-family: Verdana;">The majority of Jewish hostages were set free. For example </span>
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<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="">“None of the hostages on flights seized by Palestinian guerrillas in September 1970 died, and some would later report that under the circumstances, they had been treated reasonably well.”</span>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=""> </span>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #2b2c2e; font-family: Arial;">http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/hijacked/peopleevents/p_hijackers.html</span>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #404040; font-family: Verdana;">It is worth notting that the majority of Jewish hostages over the years have not been harmed. For example </span>
ReplyDelete<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #404040; font-family: Verdana;"> </span>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #404040; font-family: Verdana; mso-ansi-language: EN;">“None of the hostages on flights seized by Palestinian guerrillas in September 1970 died, and some would later report that under the circumstances, they had been treated reasonably well.”</span>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #404040; font-family: Verdana; mso-ansi-language: EN;"> </span>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #404040; font-family: Verdana;">http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/hijacked/peopleevents/p_hijackers.html</span>
Sigh!
ReplyDeleteSure anand!
ReplyDeletehahaha squirm vza, you bring new meaning to the movements made by a worm. What am I doing here? lol How do you know that I am here vza - unless you are here genius. I know what I am doing here, I do not want some murderous junta to say they are committing these atrocities in my name (ever look at what my website in named idiot savant?). I don't need asses like you implying that this is what Jews are how they think and act for the most part, ok?
ReplyDeleteMy stake in this (at least from what you have revealed about yourself) is a bit higher than yours. I also despise people who support and protect this fetid system, this "empire" gone awry, this Pox Americana that tries to imply that this is a legitimate activity for all Jewish people - indeed, is supposed to be Jewish identity (murderous colonial activity). Plus, this monstrosity needs to shut down post swift, before the people who you say you think of vza, are completely gutted - because that is what empire does, for that matter both foreign and domestic. It can crank imbeciles by the millions like you, and it makes none of your postures or arguments valid, just like it did not make Nazi Germany valid - and the two in operations are about a hairs breath away from each other.
http://gnn.tv/videos/viewer.php?id=3&n=1
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #404040; font-family: Verdana;">It is worth noting that the majority of Jewish hostages were not harmed. For example </span>
ReplyDelete<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #404040; font-family: Verdana;"> </span>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #404040; font-family: Verdana; mso-ansi-language: EN;">“None of the hostages on flights seized by Palestinian guerrillas in September 1970 died, and some would later report that under the circumstances, they had been treated reasonably well.”</span>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #404040; font-family: Verdana; mso-ansi-language: EN;"> </span>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #404040; font-family: Verdana;">http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/hijacked/peopleevents/p_hijackers.html</span>
Sure anand! Give us once again this Israeli propaganda line that the pathetic condition of the Palestinians is not due to the occupation and the subjugation but because they're POOR!!!!!
ReplyDeleteDespicable!!
Isn't it what Netanyahu and his gang say? Isn't it what your friends the rightwing nutters on mojo's site, C.H and co repeat like broken records that the Palestinians' problem is that they're poor??? Give us a break!
ReplyDeleteyou know absolutely nothing about these men or what they have done and not done.
ReplyDelete--------------
Understatement!
what is a "zionist?"
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Someone who wants other people's land because god gave it to him somehow!!!
what is a "zionist?"
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Someone who wants other people's land because god gave it to him somehow!!! The funny thing is that often that person doesn't even believe in god ! Go figure!!
When I read their stories, none of the hijackers sound like blood thirsty maniacs and they may well have been motivated by the noblest of reasons but I fail to see that any good came out of all that. The claim is that it brought the world's attention to the Palestinian's plight. But here they are, how many years later still in the same position so I really do not see how those tactics worked at all to the Palestinian's benefit.
ReplyDelete"But even though in general these particular militants were not willing to kill hostages for their cause, a precedent had been set, with goals sought not through negotiation but armed hijacks. In the years to come, future militants would have considerably fewer qualms about ending innocent life."
You are beginning to sound deranged.
ReplyDeleteThe hijackings did not take place in the Middle Ages, tgia. I think your excuse of "the times" rings a bit hollow. They had to know that not all Jews were Zionists. I think it was a deliberate targeting of Jews. period.
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Not the middle ages but the 70s!!! 40 years ago for goosesake! Israel has just had it's "divine victory" and the world was in awe!!! Jews for the larger part felt very proud. Their support for Israel was far greater at that time than it has ever been especially now!
It still has to be demonstrated that the separation of the Jews from the gentiles was systematic...Being part of that movie we had to go through a lot of documentation and for the 4 planes hijacked that the movie depicts there were no Jews separated from the others. There were Israelis yes but no one was killed!!! On the other hand all the hijackers were...
Am I vza? That means you are sinking deeper into you mental malaise. People who think they are clever and mislead others, or who refuse repeated times to face facts, usually end up deceiving themselves vza. You should study self-deception sometime and learn how pervasive it can be.
ReplyDeleteYes, r.s. pointed that out, too. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteWell, let me ask you what you think of this. A couple of years ago, I read a book by Robert Satloff about the Arabs who helped save Jews from the Nazis during World War II. These were stories I had never read and was impressed. I was surprised to read that with few exceptions, the families of the Arabs who saved Jews did not want it known that their relatives had done anything to help the Jews. Very strange.
Of course, v. Whatever you say.
ReplyDeleteI was surprised to read that with few exceptions, the families of the Arabs who saved Jews did not want it known that their relatives had done anything to help the Jews.
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Well vza, using some common sense and some summary understanding of psychology, one can conclude that the ill feeling(I don't call it it racism) toward the Jews stem from the resentment at the treatments the Palestinians have received at the hands of the European Jew who chose to be a coloniser and who used his victim status, power, deceit, lies and claims for the propriety using a "holy" book to rob them in daylight. How can you expect the common Arab, (the infamous street Arab) to be able to have our understanding( being the "educated" folk as we claim to be)? Aren't they humans, and when in distress they lose the ability to discern, reason, and discriminate(positively) between the "good" Jew who did nothing to hurt them and the "bad" Zionist Jew who wanted their lands? Do you think we're dealing with angels here and not 'humans of the sort you find everywhere on the surface of earth? Does this undermine in anyway their rightful claim that they've been wronged, robbed and laughed at?
"Does this undermine in anyway their rightful claim that they've been wronged, robbed and laughed at?"
ReplyDeleteThese were Arabs in North Africa who helped the Jews, Tgia. I was not aware of Jews hurting, robbing, and laughimg at Arabs in Morocco and Algeria? What land did the Zionists steal from Moroccans or Algerians?
Is this supposed to mean that they should stay insensitive to what happens to other Arabs in other Arab countries? People own radios, transistors and TVs!! I'm not getting this the slightest bit!!! You often find it strange that I say "we" because I live in Australia and should'nt give a flying goose anymore!! That's strange!
ReplyDeleteJust a reminder! In the 50s, 60s and 70s Arabs were in a mind set which is somehow different from today's... Under the impule of Nasser's Arabism(Ooroubah) and Unity(Wihdah) slogans and concepts, all Arabs felt as one nation. With failure to solve the Palestinian issue and the failure to keep up the union between Syria and Egypt, those sentiments faded a bit and took another shape more in tune with faith and religion but that doesn't mean that they stopped feeling Arab by any means!!
ReplyDelete?!
ReplyDeleteIs this supposed to mean that they should stay insensitive to what happens to other Arabs in other Arab countries? People own radios, transistors and TVs!! I'm not getting this the slightest bit!!! You often find it strange that I say "we" because I live in Australia and should'nt give a flying goose anymore!! That's strange!
Let's not forget that one of Israel's explicit objectives is to fragment and dissolve the concept of Arab unity using the motto, "divide and conquer". It was stated so many times it's not a secret anymore!
ReplyDeleteJust a reminder! In the 50s, 60s and 70s Arabs were in a mind set which is somehow different from today's... Under the impule of Nasser's Arabism(Ooroubah) and Unity(Wihdah) slogans and concepts, all Arabs felt as one nation. With failure to solve the Palestinian issue and the failure to keep up the union between Syria and Egypt, those sentiments faded a bit and took another shape more in tune with faith and religion but that doesn't mean that they stopped feeling Arab by any means!!
ReplyDeleteLet's not forget that one of Israel's explicit objectives is to fragment and dissolve the concept of Arab unity using the motto, "divide and conquer". It was stated so many times it's not a secret anymore!
ReplyDeleteYes, I see.
ReplyDeleteThat must explain why the stolen Assyrian homeland does not matter to the Arabs even though they are a part of that region? The Palestinians are Arabs and therefore the injustice of the land theft cannot be tolerated. But the Assyrians do not matter because they are not Arabs so their land can be stolen.
What are you doing, reading out of the the Zionist Gazette vza (quotes)?
ReplyDelete"But here they are, how many years later still in the same position so I really do not see how those tactics worked at all to the Palestinian's benefit."
On the contrary, ground is being gained. If it is not, than the same methodology of propaganda is being used, I do not hear you complaining about it vza - but constantly using it. The new knowledge certainly has nothing to do with the corporate news sources you quote from.
Oh, never mind, it is the "American Experience" from PBS, which was forced to seat a shit load of Zionists in 2004 - or their funding would be cut. The charge? Not "balanced" reportage and historical reports.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't discussing anything with You!
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<div class="js-singleCommentText">Yes, I see. Arab unity and solidarity based on ethnicity.
That must explain why the stolen Assyrian homeland does not matter to the Arabs even though they are a part of that region? The Palestinians are Arabs and therefore the injustice of the land theft cannot be tolerated. But the Assyrians do not matter because they are not Arabs so their land can be stolen.</div>
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<div class="js-singleCommentText"><span>"</span>Yes, I see. Unity and solidarity based on ethnicity.
That must explain why the stolen Assyrian homeland does not matter to the Arabs even though they are a part of that region? The Palestinians are Arabs and therefore the injustice of the land theft cannot be tolerated. But the Assyrians do not matter because they are not Arabs so their land can be stolen.</div>
Get screwed vza, you are making public statements - your response is like spraying bullets throughout a community and saying you were not specifically aiming at anyone in particular in the neighborhood. Besides, if you are going to take a dump somewhere, responsible people will always try to clean it up.
ReplyDeleteYes, I see. Unity and solidarity based on ethnicity.
ReplyDeleteThat must explain why the stolen Assyrian homeland does not matter to the Arabs even though they are a part of that region? The Palestinians are Arabs and therefore the injustice of the land theft cannot be tolerated. But the Assyrians do not matter because they are not Arabs so their land can be stolen.
By the way, i like how you keep blabbering trying to cover up how decimated you were in previous arguments. Keep the pile going, no matter how much you write it will never clear up your non-factual prejudices, and your "stories" from skewed historical views.
ReplyDeleteDid the Dalai Lama's anti violent struggle liberate Tibet already?
ReplyDeleteLook, I believe that NO MATTER what strategy the Palestinians opted for it wouldn't have worked either for one reason. People generally fail to understand the nature of the Israel project as an enterprise of modern colonialism backed by forces far too powerful for the time being. But it's a long struggle and like all colonialist enterprises it's doomed! Mark my words. Maybe not in 2025 or 2050, but it's doomed! It's a quintessential characteristic of all artificial unatural constructs to undergo the test of time and the law of entropy..
Oh yes, v I am decimated. How, how shall I ever recover! (sigh) I think I shall have a fit of the vapours any minute, now. Perhaps as penance I should watch ten of your choice youtube videos in a row? Or perhaps I could deconstruct Jane Austen in search of any imperialist tendencies on the part of Mr. Darcy?
ReplyDeleteHere we go again! This is becoming silly now!!! The ultimate(and unique!) argument!!
ReplyDeleteTell me now!! How many Arabs are even aware of the Assyrian issue? Are they all to blame for something not even 0.00005% of Arabs are aware of!! Now you can rant against the controlled media and I agree but you should show some flecibility in judgement too!! All is not is ok just because the Assyrians had it badly too!!
Here we go again! This is becoming silly now!!! The ultimate(and unique!) argument!!
ReplyDeleteTell me now!! How many Arabs are even aware of the Assyrian issue? Are they all to blame for something not even 0.00005% of Arabs are aware of!! Now you can rant against the controlled media and I agree but you should show some flexibility in judgement too!! All is not is ok just because the Assyrians had it badly too!!
Living in Lebanon and considering myself a little tiny weeny bit more educated than the man in the street and yet I had NEVER EVER heard of the Assyrian issue. The same goes to the Egyptian, Moroccon and any other Arab! Are we to blame for not knowing!! You repeatedly say:"Arabs don't mind when this and that" and that very tokenish and silly.
ReplyDeleteWhile living in Lebanon and been considering myself a little tiny weeny bit more informed than the man in the street and yet I had NEVER EVER heard of the Assyrian issue. The same with the Egyptian, Moroccon, Syrian and Algerian and any other Arab! Are we to blame for not knowing what's going on in a certain area of the Arab world?!! You repeatedly say:"Arabs don't mind when this happens or when that.." Do you realise how very tokenish and silly that sounds?
ReplyDeleteI am not judging. Your explanation of Arab unity of feeling made it all very clear to me.
ReplyDeleteTgia, I am not talking about the average joe in the street. I am talking about your writers, activists, poets, journalists, etc. People who get around and should know their history.
ReplyDelete"Arabs don't mind when this happens or when that.." Do you realise how very tokenish and silly that sounds?
Please, need I remind you how often Americans are spoken of in that manner, too? Right here on this blog.
Anyways, I think we have exhausted this subject. Thanks for your civil replies.
ReplyDeleterubish
ReplyDeleteI presume you mean rubbish, r.s. What is rubbish?
ReplyDelete<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="">“Inspired by Gamal Abdel Nasser, officers from the Nineteenth Brigade known as "Free Officers", under the leadership of Brigadier Abdul-Karim Qassem and Colonel Abdul Salam Arif, overthrew the Hashimite monarchy on July 14, 1958. The overthrow of Iraq's monarchy instilled new hope for the Assyrian cause. However, this hope was short-lived. Qassem was assassinated in February 1963, throwing Iraq into a period of political uncertainty. Out of the chaos emerged the Ba'ath Party who promptly took control of Iraq's government.”</span>
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I'd like to know more about this and its connection to the Assyrian cause. Do you have a link?
ReplyDeleteWhere when? I never blamed the average American. NEVER!! Even when I know that the "average American" lives in a country where freedom of the press is guaranteed I still do not blame the average Joe!!!
ReplyDeleteVza, why don't you just go get screwed about your "around the world and throughout history" horse shit. You are becoming a really big pain in the ass, and your groveling bullshit about "civil answers," why don't you get lost. "Oh, my I have a link please sir," kiss my ass
ReplyDeleteAwwwwwww. What's troubling you, v? No revolution today? Still at the barricades in Mom's basement? I'd be a little cranky, too.
ReplyDeleteHey Vza, any "vapours" you have are purely because you are full of shit. Every single fact I have posted here was clear, and no answered by you - default dipshit. There was no "youtube" fleming, damn you two should copulate perhaps you can replenish the empire with more senseless drones like yourselves. The subject of the post is not the "Assyrians" in case you did not notice (what do the Palestinians have to do with the Assyrians, just as much as they had to do with the plight of the Jewish people, zero), miss dumb argument. plus you would not recognize imperialism if it bit you, you are too enamored by it. You would not recognize a fact if I were behind you and kicked you in the ass, you would respond - "You did not kick me in the ass." Get a life and leave people alone who are serious about tackling real pain in the world, on specific issues, not multiplying blowhard nonsense like you.
ReplyDeleteKiss my ass
ReplyDeleteThose pics and your stories are soooo cool, TGIA!! I must confess that as a child, I adored Omar Sharif and consequently, any man with a mustache--I even talked my dad into growing one. (He loved it and never shaved it...) Beautiful pics, thanks for sharing those.
ReplyDeleteWell DO they're back in fashion so you'll get to see them around a bit more. As for me who knows? Mybe I'll try them in order to revive my movie career!!lol.
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome DO. Well moustaches, I've been told, are back in fashion so you'll get to see them around a bit more. As for me who knows? Mybe I'll try them in order to revive my defunct movie career!!lol.
ReplyDelete