"Today a certain Nir Barkat will be in London to address a conference at Chatham House. Perhaps I should say I believe he'll be in London. Visits by Israelis of Barkat's status tend to be cancelled at the last minute. As I can find no mention of this fellow's appearance among us in the press or on the television I can't be sure.
Barkat is the Mayor of Jerusalem, or the non-Arab part of Jerusalem. He thinks that the whole of Jerusalem should be non-Arab and is busy making it so. He is, you see, an ethnic cleanser and a land thief. Perhaps that's why his visit is not being trumpeted abroad; he must skulk in and skulk out with the help of our elected representatives, our secret police and our news reporters. If he manages to do so it will be public relations success for the Apartheid state, and, no doubt for our media, a victory for common sense and moderation."
Jemmy Hope
Swearing at the Telly blog( c'mon ye'all! go and have a look. You won't regret the wit and the humor)
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Anglophobia on the rise in Israel
ReplyDeletehttp://warincontext.org/2010/03/24/anglophobia-on-the-rise-in-israel/
Anyone interested in what this ganef* has to say can hear it at -
ReplyDeletehttp://www.chathamhouse.org.uk/events/view/-/id/1485/
personally I can't manage the task as I underwent bullshit aversion therapy some time ago.
<span>"<span>Anglophobia on the rise in Israel</span>"</span>
<span>and in Anandistan, along with an epidemic of cretinism.</span>
<span></span>
<span>*American spelling, goniff</span>
One constant push back I get from the friends of Israel is that Palestinians are not a distinct people with their own unique culture, nationalism or sense of identity.
ReplyDeleteIn other words, Palestinians are the same people as Egyptians, Lebanese, Syrians and Jordanians; with the same culture, language, traditions and values.
Therefore, there is no reason for Palestinians to get their own state.
Egypt should take back Gaza and Jordan or other Arabs should take responsibility for ninety some percent of the West Bank. [Israel wants to keep between 4.2% and 10% of the West Bank. The US offered the Palestinians 95.8% of the West Bank plus territory swaps of equal quality in Israel proper. However currently 10% of the West Bank is west of the Wall.]
What is the best push back for this argument?
ReplyDeleteOne problem with this argument is that Israelis then argue that all the Arab property stolen from Arab Jews should be returned to Israelis; and that Israelis should have the right to live in Arab countries.
The Israelis also then blame Palestinians for all Arab mistakes, including Arabs such as Zarkawi, Osama Bin Laden, etc. Israelis also blame Palestinians for terrorist attacks against Israelis, even though this is unfair.
How can Palestinians force Arabs to allow Israelis to freely live, conduct business in, trade with, invest in, and visit Arab countries?
This then is used as an excuse to deny a one state (as As'ad and Legal I prefer) or a two state solution (as TGIA, and VZA prefer.)
There's not much you can do anan . YOU CANNOT argue with Zionists. It's a disease which makes one hermetivcally closed to reason or facts. But what you can do is simply distill facts that will do the job that you wouldn't have to do. Remind them that:
ReplyDelete1- The Arabs conquest of Palestine took place in 630 AD. That was 1400 years ago.
2- Jews at that time were on the road since close to 1900/ 2000 years in fact, whether forced out by the Romans as the exodus narrative goes, or voluntarily on a proselytic missions according to the historian Shlomo Sand. In either case few Jewish communities were left in Palestine at the time Arab Muslims conquered..Besides there were many indigenous groups too long to mention here.
3- If 1400 years of uninterrupted presence in a defined area, Palestine, are not enough to make a certain group of people LOCALS with their own idiosyncrasies and cultural characteristics due to a specific interaction shaped by a specific formation of land and resources, WHAT WILL?
4- 2000 years later the Jews who had very little connection to the original stock if only remotely, show at the door armed to the teeth and shout: GET THE F..K OUT OF HERE! This our land! Haven't you read the bible?
<span>There's not much you can do anan . YOU CANNOT argue with Zionists. It's a disease which makes one hermetivcally closed to reason or facts. But what you can do is simply distill facts that will do the job that you wouldn't have to do. Remind them that: </span>
ReplyDelete<span></span><span>1- The Arabs conquest of Palestine took place in 630 AD. That was 1400 years ago.</span>
<span>
2- Jews at that time were on the road since close to 1900/ 2000 years in fact, whether forced out by the Romans as the exodus narrative goes, or voluntarily on a proselytic missions according to the historian Shlomo Sand. In either case few Jewish communities were left in Palestine at the time Arab Muslims conquered..Besides there were many indigenous groups too long to mention here.
3- If 1400 years of uninterrupted presence in a defined area, Palestine, are not enough to make a certain group of people LOCALS with their own idiosyncrasies and cultural characteristics due to a specific interaction shaped by a specific formation of land and resources, WHAT WILL?
4- 2000 years later the Jews who had very little connection to the original stock if only remotely, show at the door armed to the teeth and shout: GET THE F..K OUT OF HERE! This our land! Haven't you read the bible?</span>
<span><span>There's not much you can do anan . YOU CANNOT argue with Zionists. Zionism and love for Israel are a mental disease..It makes one hermetivcally closed to reason or facts. But what you can do is simply distill facts that will do the job that you wouldn't have to do. Remind them that very sketchily: </span>
ReplyDelete<span></span><span>1- The Arabs conquered Palestine from the Romans took place in 638 AD. That was 1400 years ago.</span> </span>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Southern_Levant
<span><span>
2- Jews at that time were on the road since close to 1900/ 2000 years in fact, whether forced out by the Romans as the exodus narrative goes, or voluntarily on a proselytic missions according to the historian Shlomo Sand. In either case few Jewish communities were left in Palestine at the time Arab Muslims conquered..Besides there were many indigenous groups too long to mention here.
3- If 1400 years of uninterrupted presence in a defined area, Palestine, are not enough to make a certain group of people LOCALS with their own idiosyncrasies and cultural characteristics due to a specific interaction shaped by a specific formation of land and resources, WHAT WILL?
4- 2000 years later the Jews who had very little connection to the original stock if only remotely, show at the door armed to the teeth and shout: GET THE F..K OUT OF HERE! This our land! Haven't you read the bible?</span></span>
<span><span><span>There's not much you can do anan . YOU CANNOT argue with Zionists. Zionism and love for Israel are a mental disease..It makes one hermetivcally closed to reason or facts. But what you can do is simply distill facts that will do the job that you wouldn't have to do. Remind them that very sketchily: </span>
ReplyDelete<span></span><span>1- The Arabs/Muslims conquered Palestine from the Romans in 638 AD. That was 1400 frigging years ago. (Not enough to make them locals in the eyes of the Zionist trash!)</span> </span> </span>
<span>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Southern_Levant
<span><span>
2- Jews at that time were on the road since close to 2000 years in fact, whether forced out Palestine by the Romans as the exodus narrative goes, or voluntarily on a proselytic missions according to the historian Shlomo Sand. In either case few Jewish communities were left at the time of the conquest..Besides there were many indigenous groups, also ancestors of today's Palestinian people .
3- If 1400 years of uninterrupted presence in a defined area are not enough to make a certain group of people LOCALS with their own idiosyncrasies and cultural characteristics due to a specific interaction shaped by a specific formation of land and resources, WHAT WILL?
4- 2000 years later European Jews who have only remotely any connection to the area want "their" land "back", show at the door with guns and shout: GET THE F..K OUT OF HERE! </span></span></span>
anan
ReplyDeleteWhen are you going to take some time and read a little about this subject BEFORE you jump in the pool of discussions about it.. We can't do that for you all the time you know!
TGIA, please bare with me and don't get offended.
ReplyDeleteMy understanding is that there were many Jews in 638 when Umar, the 2nd rightly guided Caliph came.
In fact Umar ordered that the Jews be protected and treated them better than the Byzentines.
Over the centuries, other peoples moved to Palestine. That tends to happen. :LOL:
The Christian crusaders oppressed the Jews and tried to drive them out. The wise and just mountain Turk (Kurd) Salahadin was pro Jewish, and protected the Jewish population.
Have you noticed the good relations between Kurds and Jews/Israelis to this day?
Most Arab Jews did not live in Palestine, but live in Iraq and other countries.
Then the disaster of the 1940s happened.
You have documented the suffering of the Palestinians. However, Jewish Arabs also suffered, especially those who lived outside Palestine and in Gaza and the West Bank.
Saying that Palestinians and Arabs are the same people is a way to blame Arabs/Palestinians for the suffering of Arab Jews outside Palestine.
Israelis might mention the Arab Jews Saddam hung in 1969 and say that Arabs (Palestinians) want to do this to all Jews.
This is why I ask again; are Egyptians, Jordanians, Syrians, Iraqis, Lebanese, Jordanisan, Palestinians one people, one culture, one nationality, and one country?
Israelis frequently assert some variation of this; so do many Arabs such as Nasser, Assad and Saddam Hussein.
<span>My understanding is that there were many Jews in 638 when Umar, the 2nd rightly guided Caliph came. </span>
ReplyDelete---------------
How many is many?
<span><span>My understanding is that there were many Jews in 638 when Umar, the 2nd rightly guided Caliph came. </span>
ReplyDelete---------------
How many is many?</span>
In any case the numbers are not that important in this specific context because those Palestinian Jews who counted around 5% of the population in 1940 WERE NOT ZIONIST and were not looking for an independent, exclusive state. That's what European Jews wanted..
<span>However, Jewish Arabs also suffered, especially those who lived outside Palestine and in Gaza and the West Bank.
ReplyDeleteSaying that Palestinians and Arabs are the same people is a way to blame Arabs/Palestinians for the suffering of Arab Jews outside Palestine. </span>
---------------------------
I can see exactly why the Zionist scum deny the Palestinians any specific cultural or national idiosycrasies. By connecting them to the larger group they belong to, Arabs in general they make them resoponsible for the actions of other Arabs in regards to the Arab Jews who, by the way did, until the creation of Israel, were not mistreated for being Jews..They were with other "minority" groups composing the Arab societies..
<span><span>However, Jewish Arabs also suffered, especially those who lived outside Palestine and in Gaza and the West Bank.
ReplyDeleteSaying that Palestinians and Arabs are the same people is a way to blame Arabs/Palestinians for the suffering of Arab Jews outside Palestine. </span>
---------------------------
I can see exactly why the Zionist scum deny the Palestinians any specific cultural or national idiosycrasies. By diluting them in the larger group they belong to, Arabs, they make them accountable and resoponsible for the actions of others in regards to the Arab Jews who, by the way were not, until the creation of Israel, mistreated or targeted specifically for being Jews..They were with other "minority" groups composing the Arab societies under Ottoman rule....</span>
Finally, I have no will to discuss this matter. As far as I'm concerned it's a total waste of time because as I said many time, one cannot argue with Zionists. This is a pathological state of mind which became an ideology.. I will not argue with a clinical disorder, I don't have the time.
"<span><span> can see exactly why the Zionist scum deny the Palestinians any specific cultural or national idiosycrasies. By diluting them in the larger group they belong to, Arabs, they make them accountable and resoponsible for the actions of others in regards to the Arab Jews who, by the way were not, until the creation of Israel, mistreated or targeted specifically for being Jews..They were with other "minority" groups composing the Arab societies under Ottoman rule</span></span>"
ReplyDeleteWell put. However the friends of Israel go further and quote Saddam, Nasser, papa Assad and other proponents of Arab nationalism and say that they are merely repeating what the "Arabs" say.
Understand that you don't want to discuss this further TGIA. Maybe VAA, RSS, Iraqi Mojo, and other Arabs might discuss this issue.
I also agree with you that not all Israeli Jews are zionists. In fact, a very large number are Arab Jews (most of whom are from Iraq and other non Palestinian Arab countries.)
<span> However the friends of Israel </span>
ReplyDelete-------------
I wish the "friends of Israel" could stop breathing in their sleep. They're generally dumb and blissfully ignorant. They are directly or indirectly causing a huge suffering to people who had done nothing wrong neither to them nor to any others..
<span><span> However the friends of Israel </span>
ReplyDelete-------------
I wish the "friends of Israel" could stop breathing in their sleep. They're generally dumb and blissfully ignorant or terribly misguides. Either way, they are, directly or indirectly , causing huge suffering to people who have done nothing wrong neither to them nor to any others..</span>
<span><span><span> However the friends of Israel </span>
ReplyDelete-------------
I wish the "friends of Israel" could stop breathing in their sleep. They're generally dumb and blissfully ignorant or terribly misguides. Either way, they are, directly or indirectly , causing huge suffering to people who have done nothing wrong neither to them nor to any others..</span></span>
"<span><span><span> blissfully ignorant or terribly misguides</span></span></span>" agreed. They are unknowingly contributing to the suffering of Palestinians.
ReplyDeleteThe reason I say "friends of Israel" is because most of them aren't Israeli.