By Malalai Joya
You must understand that the government headed by Hamid Karzai is full of warlords and extremists who are brothers in creed of the Taliban. Many of these men committed terrible crimes against the Afghan people during the civil war of the 1990s.
I wonder if I had been born in her place, that I would be as brave as Joya.
Friday, July 31, 2009
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An unusually frank article, did anyone think they were going to experience "liberation?"
ReplyDeleteThe Afghan people have a right to select their own leaders, even if they happen to be former war lords. If Malalai Joya opposes them, then let her do so through the ballot box.
ReplyDeleteMy sense is that many of the war lords won in 2004 and 2005 because the Afghan people were grateful to them for liberating Afghanistan from the cruel Taliban. But now, the Afghan voters expect much more. I believe a new generation of Afghan leadership might be elected in a few weeks.
It is interesting that by far the most popular institution among Afghans is the ANA. Afghans are very proud of it. Why? Because it is nonsectarian, professional, and increasingly free of war lords and their mineans as the post 2001 professionally trained ANA officers replace the old foagies.
The ANA is supplanting the old power structures across Afghanistan; but remains far too small and underfunded.
The ANA is probably the least corrupt institution in Afghanistan; although corrupt by global standards. There is reason to hope that other civilian GIRoA ministries will be inspired by the ANA and aspire to international standards of governance, efficiency and professionalism.
Malalai Joya's problem is she complains without offering practical suggestions. Afghanistan is one of the poorest countries on earth. The entire GIRoA only generates $600 million in annual revenues, or $20 per Afghan per year. She and her fellow parliamentarians have no money to spend. She has to either convince foreigners to give Afghanistan money in grants; or make Afghanistan rich (which would generate tax revenue for the GIRoA.) Otherwise, the GIRoA has almost no influence over the lives of ordinary Afghans.
What is her specific plan to achieve either of these goals? She cannot confront war lords if she has no money, and no ANP or ANA to support her. She could walk up to them, practice Sathya Graha (fill her heart with limitless love for all including the war lords), give them a hug, and inspire the war lords to transform themselves with the power of her example. Perhaps this is her plan?
<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style=" color: #404040; font-family: Verdana;">The INP treats people better than the GoI. Can you prove that the allegations against the ISAF? This is an insult to the brave lions of the ANP. The fact remains that the ISF and INP are performing much better than the ANA. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Unfortunately the IP and IA need improving. However the 26<sup>th </sup>armored and 64<sup>th</sup> infantry have done a great job at kicking takfiri butt. Run takfiri run. But the INP and IA and the entire GIRoA need money and training. This is the problem facing not only the INP but the ANA. This is why we need the GoI. Can you suggest any specific ways to improve the GoI? </span>
ReplyDeleteThe biggest challenge for Afghanistan is that GIRoA revenue is $600 million a year, but its annual steady state expenditure is $6 billion or more per year. The balance is provided by foreign grants. This is:
ReplyDelete1) completely unsustainable unless Afghanistan becomes rich and increases its annual tax revenue
2) causes a dichotomy and lack of accountability since the Afghan parliament and government controls an ANA, ANP, education ministry, transportation ministry, energy ministry, that they don't pay for. The foreigners who pay for these ministries cannot exercise due diligence and oversight since this violates Afghan sovereinty.
3) Means that Malalai Joya and her fellow parliamentarians will always be percieved as lacking true sovereignty, since they are almost completely dependent of foreign grants.
Malalai Joya can argue about education reform; however we should remember that the entire annual revenue of the GIRoA is less than the annual education budget. As long as this is the case, Malalai Joya and her colleagues remain beholden to foreigners.
Currently there are 7 million in Afghan schools. one third are girls. Waht is Malalai Joya doing to ensure their funding? Is she traveling around the world and lobbying for increased grants for Afghanistan? Maybe she is. I don't know.
"The biggest challenge for Afghanistan is that GIRoA revenue is $600 million a year" C-3P0 Human Cyborg Relations
ReplyDeleteCan somebody shut this thing off?
LOL...incredible
ReplyDeleteGIRoA
ReplyDelete------------
Argggggh!
Acronyms S.U.C.K...
ReplyDeleteWhat have you been doing anand besides cheerleading for the U.S. empire and it's lackeyes? LOL!!!!!
ReplyDeleteOh and criticizing those who don't support empires or their lackeyes....?
ReplyDeleteEmpires R.O.C.K....!!
ReplyDeleteLOL
Information is in the details r.s.
ReplyDeleteSome in the international community are saying that international aid should not flow through the GIRoA (national government.) Rather, the best quality provincial and district governments should be identified (the ones with the most efficient, professional, and non corrupt governance); and money should be directly sent to them.
However, some would argue that this harms the sovereinty of the GIRoA and Malalai Joya's fellow parliamentarians. I wonder where Malalai Joya comes down on this. Would she rather international aid flowed through the national government (which she as a parliamentarian could influence), or through local governments (which she might have less influence on.)
TGIA, if any acronyms are difficult to understand, then ask what they mean or google them.
ReplyDeleteTGIA, what do you think Afghanistan should do about the fact that its steady state expenditures are about 10 times its annual revenues? How should Afghans handle this?
Many enemies of Afghanistan, such as Tariq Ali, want to cut off international aid to Afghanistan, because they want to shut off the vast majority of government spending in Afghanistan; and facilitate its being over run by Taliban.
Marion, why don't you deal with the real issues at hand in Afghansitan?
ReplyDeleteHow should the Afghans pay for their education system? Since it is currently entirely paid for by foreigners, should foreigners have a voice in how it is run?
The same question can be asked for Afghanistan's road building (Afghanistan has far more roads than ever before . . . but roads are extremely expensive to maintain . . . and need to be refurbished from time to time, the Afghans have no money currently pay for it.)
Off subject -
ReplyDeleteLET THERE BE CAMERAS IN HAITI
http://www.haitiaction.net/News/HIP/7_26_9/7_26_9.html
I thought that some of you might be interested in reading the following article:
ReplyDeleteIs the Left Promoting War on Iran?
By Bob Finch
<span style="color: #0068cf;">http://atheonews.blogspot.com/2009/02/is-left-promoting-war-on-iran.html</span>
When the U.S. and Nato leave, we will discuss these other subjects anand because schools and roads cannot be built and maintained during wars and occupations....
ReplyDeleteROCK meaning that all empires eventually ROCK themselves off the edge and into the age of oblivion thanks to the blind arrogance of the empire and the steadfast resistance of the people..
ReplyDeleteUrged on by calls from their mullahs, Muslim mobs burned down more than 50 homes of the Christian community in a village of the province of Punjab. A house of worship of the Anglican-affiliated Church of Pakistan, as well as another belonging to the New Apostolic Church, were both put to the torch in the evening hours of July 30 following a reaction to a supposed desecration of the Koran. Around 1000 Muslim believers, bearing firearms and explosives, also attacked numerous Christian homes and burned them. The village of Kolyat, where the attacks occured, is home to some 100 Christian families who had been living there for several decades. As the attacks widened, Christian men, women and children fled the onslaught and hid themselves in nearby fields.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.speroforum.com/a/19997/Pakistan-Churches-and-Christian-homes-burned
Punish the victim in Bangladesh
ReplyDeleteThe victim of repeated rapes who has become pregnant is being forced by local leaders to marry the man who abused her and sentenced to a beating for the "crime" committed. This is the story of a teenager in the village of Char Padma in Faridpur district of central Bangladesh.
http://www.speroforum.com/a/19920/Girl-forced-to-marry-her-rapist
Urged on by calls from their mullahs, Muslim mobs burned down more than 50 homes of the Christian community in a village of the province of Punjab. A house of worship of the Anglican-affiliated Church of Pakistan, as well as another belonging to the New Apostolic Church, were both put to the torch in the evening hours of July 30 following a reaction to a supposed desecration of the Koran. Around 1000 Muslim believers, bearing firearms and explosives, also attacked numerous Christian homes and burned them. The village of Kolyat, where the attacks occured, is home to some 100 Christian families who had been living there for several decades. As the attacks widened, Christian men, women and children fled the onslaught and hid themselves in nearby fields.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.speroforum.com/a/19997/Pakistan-Churches-and-Christian-homes-burned
Marion, 91% of Afghans oppose the Taliban. So does your Iran. Why can't the Afghans ask their foreign allies to help them defeat the Taliban?
ReplyDeleteWhy do you oppose all international funding, training and equipping of the ANA (which 87% of Afghans support)?
You do realize that the ANA and ANP are completely paid for by foreigners.
You realize that the education department is almost completely paid for by foreigners. The Education budget alone is greater than the annual revenue of Afghanistan.
If the international grants are cut off as you desire, the vast majority of ANP, ANA, and school teachers will need to be fired immediately. Do you really support this?
I don't think Khamenei supports this. So why would you?
Remember, only 10% of the Afghan budget is paid for with Afghan revenue. The rest is foreign grants. Let the Afghans accept temporary foreign aid most other countries have since the begining of time.
Remember how 1775 to 1778, 90% of US gunpowder was provided free of cost by France. Remember how a large French occupation army fought shoulder to shoulder alongside American revolutionaries for American freedom 1778 to 1783.
Please don't demand of the Afghans what they don't want. Please don't expect them to reach a standard that no other country has reached before.
Is the elected Afghan government and its ANA (army) an empire? What are you talking about? If the Afghans want to accept foreign help to fund, equip and train their army; don't they have that right?
ReplyDeleteLet me repeat:
ReplyDeleteEmpires R.O.C.K. :)
<span style="">Esta lloviendo sobremojado</span>
ReplyDeleteAll the screaming and kicking hypocritical baby posts still do not undo the thousands upon thousands killed for lies by the USA and the "coalition"
ReplyDeleteI love idioms from other languages! But wouldn't this be true of just about all of the posters here?
ReplyDeleteI like this one from Bob Dylan: "Some people feel the rain, others just get wet."
I love idioms from other languages! But wouldn't this be true of just about all of the posters here?
ReplyDeleteI like this one from Bob Dylan: "Some people feel the rain, others just get wet." ;)
I never, but never, scream and kick.
ReplyDeleteSo. I think I get it now. There are to be no links to articles about killings or torture (and most definitely NOT beheadings, let alone make a comment!...heaven forbid. We would not want to get into that old moral equivalency argument, now would we?) EXCEPT for those committed by the U.S. or Israel?.........because you think it is an attempt to "UNDO"? Got it.
"If the international grants are cut off as you desire,..."--anand trying to claim somehting about me which I never stated...
ReplyDeleteanand you might be intersted in reading the following report from Daily Kos:
Bombshell: Bin Laden worked for U.S. till 9/11
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/7/31/63124/3823
anand my ROCK response was directed towards Fleming's ROCK comment about the U.S. empire which apparently has been deleted, not in response to you....
ReplyDeletevza,
ReplyDeleteHow many innocent Muslims have been killed and maimed during U.S /Israel wars and occupations in the last 30 years? I will bet you have no idea and could care less, yet you make it a point to tknow how many Christians some fanatical Muslims killed in Pakistan....
Maybe I misunderstood.
ReplyDeleteWhat is your position on foreign funding, training, equipping of the ANA and ANP? As you know, currently they are completely paid for by foreigners.
Well, that's a matter of dispute isn't it? I am well aware of all the estimates and do care and do not ignore it. In fact, this blog has been prolific in posting quite a few articles about the crimes, real and imagined, of U.S. foreign policy. I read them all and condemn what I believe is wrong and I also write to my elected officials. I can come right back and ask, Do you know what religious minorities are dealing with in many Islamic states? Do you know the number of victims? Do you care? Do you know the number of Muslim victims of Islamist fanatics? Do you care?
ReplyDeleteI've always been impressed by the Mexicans; perhaps because their legacy predates ours. One of my favorite Mexican refranes is:
ReplyDeleteSi la marrana te muerde, no le aflojes al mecate.
Mexicans are very impressive.
ReplyDeleteWhat is your position on Bin Laden working for the U.S. up until 9/11 anand? And do you think he still does?
ReplyDeleteI care about all innocent life being taken by no matter who vza, and I especially care that my country of origin, the USA, has used Muslim fanatics, like AlQaeda and the Taliban, in the past and present to do their dirty work for them.... How about you? Can you even bring yourself to acknowledge this fact??
ReplyDeleteI care about all innocent life being taken vza by no matter who, but as an American I care most about the fact that certain organizations aligned with our government , sucg as the CIA has been using Muslim fanatics lin the past and present, like AlQaeda and the Taliban, to do some of our dirty work for us. What about you? Do you even acknowledge this fact, or do you believe it is imagined?
ReplyDeleteNothing would surprise me about the CIA, Marion. We have a history of making a devil's bargain with all sorts of unsavory characters in order to supposedly further our "national interests" which to my mind, often comes to haunt us as blowback later on.
ReplyDeleteVZA, Nasrallah argues that America and Al Qaeda are allied together against the Shia. This is why Marion believes this. What do you think about Nasrallah's accusations?
ReplyDeleteIf true, why did we topple Sadaam Hussein, resulting in the Shia ascendency to power?
ReplyDeleteSorry, I do not trust or believe anything Nasrallah says and it is astonishing to me that any American citizen would do so. I especially find it amusing when he goes on and on about Israeli occupation and yet he was a supporter of a 29 year occupation by Syria.
I especially find it amusing when he goes on and on about Israeli occupation and yet he was a supporter of a 29 year occupation by Syria.
ReplyDelete----------------
To make a jugement on this issue you (and I) need to know much more about the mindbogglingly complicated Lebanese politics...You'd be surprised to know the majority of Lebanese, people and politicians, were backing Syria...Why? Well, it's ...complicated!!
You'd be surprised to know the majority of Lebanese, people and politicians, were backing Syria...Why? Well, it's ...complicated!!
ReplyDeleteYes, I see! I have tried to read some books and blogs to understand their politics but it usually gives me a headache. I have a Syrian friend who says Lebanon really belongs to Syria!
VZA, both Lebanon and Syria use to be one entity during the French occupation. Before that most of the Arab world was under Ottoman Turkish occupation for half a millenia.
ReplyDeleteTGIA, according to you some occupations are acceptable and some are not. How do you make the distinction?
Which occupation I'm fine with anand?? In case you're referring to the Syrian occupation of Lebanon I'll ask (reluctantantly because I hate discussing Lebanese politics) this question..Who invited, yes INVITED, the Syrians to intervene in Lebanon during the civil war? Check it out and come back to me..
ReplyDeleteJust as an aside..You'd be ill advised arguing with me about Lebanese politics for 2 reasons. One because I hate it, second because I surely know more than you and I would like to admit...In the same way that I wouldn't argue with you about India...Lebanon is a country which is impossible to know well if you're not a native no matter how many years you've beren living there. Example. Robert Fisk lives there but often his analysis of the situation is naive at best!
Which occupation I'm fine with anand?? In case you're referring to the Syrian occupation of Lebanon I'll ask (reluctantantly because I hate discussing Lebanese politics) this question..Who invited, yes INVITED, the Syrians to intervene in Lebanon during the civil war? Check it out and come back to me..
ReplyDeleteJust as an aside..You'd be ill advised arguing with me about Lebanese politics for 2 reasons. One because I hate it, second because I surely know more than you and I would like to admit...In the same way that I wouldn't argue with you about India...Lebanon is a country which is impossible to know well from books or if you're not a native no matter how many years you've been living there. Example. Robert Fisk lives there for many decades but often his analysis of the situation is naive at best!
I have a Syrian friend who says Lebanon really belongs to Syria!
ReplyDelete-------------
Lebanon doesn't belong to Syria. Lebanon belongs IN Syria...
My dad told me many times: When we were young there were no borders and it was one country with one currency, one people. All of of used to be called " Bilad u Sham", Syrian country. But the French decided otherwise..A long story..
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<div class="js-singleCommentText">Which occupation I'm fine with anand?? In case you're referring to the Syrian occupation of Lebanon I'll ask (reluctantantly because I hate discussing Lebanese politics) this question..Who invited, yes INVITED, the Syrians to intervene in Lebanon during the civil war? Check it out and come back to me..
Just as an aside..You'd be ill advised arguing with me about Lebanese politics for 2 reasons. One because I hate it, second because I surely know more than I would like to admit...In the same way that I wouldn't argue with you about India...Lebanon is a country which is impossible to know well from books or if you're not a native no matter how many years you've been living there. Example. Robert Fisk lives there for many decades but often his analysis of the situation is naive at best!</div>
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Which occupation I'm fine with anand?? In case you're referring to the Syrian occupation of Lebanon which yould like to compare to the Israeli one, I'll ask (reluctantantly because I hate discussing Lebanese politics) this question..Who invited, yes INVITED, the Syrians to intervene to save them during the Lebanese civil war? Check it out and come back to me..
ReplyDeleteJust as an aside..You'd be ill advised arguing with me about Lebanese politics, not out of arrogance but for 2 reasons. One, because I hate it, two, because I surely know more than I would like to show. Much much more...In the same way I wouldn't argue with you about India...Lebanon is a country which is impossible to know well from books or if you're not a native no matter how many years you've been living there. Example. Robert Fisk lives there for many decades now but often his analysis of the situation is naive at best!
Why do I hate discussing Lebanese politics you might ask! The answer is in your comment itself... As soon as I mentioned the Syrian occupation you wrongly concluded that I was fine with it when I was not..And as I have to explain this, I'll have to put on the table 100 years of history and politics which gives me headaches already.....
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<div class="js-singleCommentText">Why do I hate discussing Lebanese politics you might ask! The answer is in your comment itself... As soon as I mentioned the Syrian occupation you wrongly concluded that I was fine with it when I was not..And as I have to explain this, I'll have to put on the table 100 years of history and politics which gives me headaches already.....</div>
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Why do I hate discussing Lebanese politics you might ask! The answer is in your comment itself... As soon as I mentioned the Syrian occupation you concluded that I was fine with it when I was not..And as I have to explain this, I'll have to go through the trouble of putting on the table 100 years of history and politics which gives me headaches already.....
ReplyDeleteTGIA, borders are nebulous things. They, and nation groupings, keep changing over time. Over more than 6,000 years; the vast majority of countries have dissappeared; borders shifted in strange and unpredictable ways.
ReplyDeleteTGIA, I wouldn't mind a Syrian occupation of Lebanon if Syria were a free democracy. I was not refering to the Syrian occupation of Lebanon by the way. I was refering to the Ottoman occupation of the Arab world for 5 centuries, and the French occupation of Lebanon and Syria. I was also refering to the Egyptian and Jordanian occupation of Palestine 1948-1967.
"Who invited, yes INVITED, the Syrians to intervene to save them during the Lebanese civil war?" By this measure, has America occupied Iraq since June 2004 (when the Iraqi government invited US troops "to intervene to save them during the . . . [Iraqi] civil war? Has Japan been under US occupation since 1945? Has South Korea been under US occupation since 1950? Has the UK been under US occupation since 1941? Has Canada been under US occupation since 1941? Has Turkey been under US occupation for generations? Is Afghanistan under occupation (the Afghan government invited UN mandated forces to enter their country in 2001)? Has Germany been under US occupation since 1945? Has Italy been under US occupation since 1943? Has Haiti been under Brazilian and Chinese occupation since 2004? Is Lebanon currently occupied by 14,000 UNIFIL occupation troops? Is Bhutan under Indian occupation since they invited Indian troops to help defend them from China? Is Tibet under Chinese occupation? Hong Kong? Was Hong Kong under British occupation until 1997?
The reason I ask is that some people (especially on the left) imply that all the above are harsh occupations.
No matter how much you try to compare the Israeli occupation(in the end this is your agenda) with other ocxcupations it's not going to compare..Neither the Ottomand nor the French or the Egyptians or the Jordaniand had ANY claim omn the land as theirs in the way Israel did! Neither country settled its citzens in occupied land( we went through this before!). Israel is a first!!! They claim exclusivity to the land, a Jewish country...Arab citizens of Israel are reluctuntly tolerated never accepted!!!
ReplyDeleteAnother thing, who told I was fine with either occupation you mention, whether the Ottoman, a terrible one or the French!! Now in the name of the god you believe I'd like you to stop bringing the Egyptian AND Jordanian "occupation" to the discussion because this is very offensive to me since I explained many times, many times again and again, IN VAIN, the difference with the abject, inhumane, genocidal Israeli occupation... You're obviously under the heavy influence of the nutcase Totten who would like to make you think that everybody, Egypt Jordan and Israel are equal in their responsibilty for the situation in Palestine. This is a patent lie and an odious, horrendous intellectual dishonesty!!Egyptiand did NOT settle! Egyptians did not crush and subjugate the popultion, they were occupying the Sinai desert, barely inhabited land!!! But of course no matter how many times I'm going to say this it's not going to cut it, because you have your agenda and you have your convictions. I'm not interested in this dialog of the deaf!
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<div class="js-singleCommentText">No matter how much you try to compare the Israeli occupation(in the end this is your agenda) with other ocxcupations it's not going to compare..Neither the Ottomand nor the French or the Egyptians or the Jordaniand had ANY claim omn the land as theirs in the way Israel did! Neither country settled its citzens in occupied land( we went through this before!). Israel is a first!!! They claim exclusivity to the land, a Jewish country...Arab citizens of Israel are reluctuntly tolerated never accepted!!!
Another thing, who told I was fine with either occupation you mention, whether the Ottoman, a terrible one or the French!! Now in the name of the god you believe I'd like you to stop bringing the Egyptian AND Jordanian "occupation" to the discussion because this is very offensive to me since I explained many times, many times again and again, IN VAIN, the difference with the abject, inhumane, genocidal Israeli occupation... You're obviously under the heavy influence of the nutcase Totten who would like to make you think that everybody, Egypt Jordan and Israel are equal in their responsibilty for the situation in Palestine. This is a patent lie and an odious, horrendous intellectual dishonesty!!Egyptiand did NOT settle! Egyptians did not crush and subjugate the popultion, they were occupying the Sinai desert, barely inhabited land!!! But of course no matter how many times I'm going to say this it's not going to cut it, because you have your agenda and you have your convictions. I'm not interested in this dialog of the deaf!</div>
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No matter how much you try to compare the Israeli occupation (in the end this is what you have in the back of your mind) with other ocxcupations it's not going to compare..Neither the Ottomans nor the French or the Egyptians or the Jordanians had ANY claim on the land as theirs in the way Israel did! Neither country settled its citizens in occupied land steal;ing and expulsing the indigeous population.( we went through this before!). Israel is very different but you wouldn't want to understand!!! They claim exclusivity to the land, a Jewish country...Arab citizens of Israel are reluctuntly tolerated never accepted and plans are on the table for a transfer, mark my words!!!!
ReplyDeleteAnother thing, who told I was fine with either occupation you mentioned, whether the Ottoman, a terrible one, or the French!! Now in the name of the god you believe in I'd like you to stop bringing the Egyptian AND Jordanian "occupation" to the discussion because this is very offensive to me since I explained many times, many times again and again, IN VAIN, the difference with the abject, inhumane, genocidal Israeli occupation... You're obviously under the heavy influence of the nutcase Totten who would like to make you think that everybody, Egypt, Jordan and Israel all share the same resposibility for the situation in Palestine. This is a patent lie and an odious, horrendous intellectual dishonesty!! Egyptians did NOT settle! Egyptians did not crush and subjugate the popultion, they were occupying Gaza, a very small part of Palestine!!! But of course no matter how many times I'm going to say this it's not going to cut it, because you have your agenda and you have your convictions and I'm not interested in this dialog of the deaf! You simply cannot have it both ways!!
Finally, you didn't answer my question about those who invited the Syrians to intervene in Lebanon because you possibly didn't know that it was the Christian right wing factions who were facing an imminent defeat before the Syrians came to the rescue!!!
Another important thing you need to understand...I cannot and will never sympathize with anyone who's sympathetic to the odious Israeli occupier! NEVER! It's a fundemental question of principle to me..I lost a couple of friends because of their sympathy towards Israel and I have no regrets whatsoever!!
ReplyDeleteNo matter how much you try to compare the Israeli occupation (in the end this is what you have in the back of your mind) with other occupations it's not going to compare..Neither the Ottomans nor the French or the Egyptians or the Jordanians had ANY claim on the land as theirs in the way Israel did! Maybe Jordan would have or death for them..Neither country settled its citizens in occupied land stealing and expulsing the indigenous population,( we went through this before!). Israel is very different but you wouldn't want to understand!!! They claim exclusivity to the land, a Jewish country...Arab citizens of Israel are reluctuntly tolerated never accepted and plans are on the table for a transfer, mark my words!!!!
ReplyDeleteAnother thing, who told I was fine with either occupation you mentioned, whether the Ottoman, a terrible one, or the French!! Now in the name of the god you believe in I'd like you to stop bringing the Egyptian AND Jordanian "occupation" to the discussion because this is very offensive to me since I explained many times, many times again and again, IN VAIN, the difference with the abject, inhumane, genocidal Israeli occupation... You're obviously under the heavy influence of the nutcase Totten who would like to make you think that everybody, Egypt, Jordan and Israel all share the same resposibility for the situation in Palestine. This is a patent lie and an odious, horrendous intellectual dishonesty!! Egyptians did NOT settle! Egyptians did not crush and subjugate the popultion, they were occupying Gaza, a very small part of Palestine!!! But of course no matter how many times I'm going to say this it's not going to cut it, because you have your agenda and you have your convictions and I'm not interested in this dialog of the deaf! You simply cannot have it both ways!!
Finally, you didn't answer my question about those who invited the Syrians to intervene in Lebanon because you possibly didn't know that it was the Christian right wing factions who were facing an imminent defeat before the Syrians came to the rescue!!!
No matter how much you try to compare the Israeli occupation (in the end this is what you have in the back of your mind) with other occupations it's not going to compare..Neither the Ottomans nor the French or the Egyptians or the Jordanians had ANY claim on the land as theirs in the way Israel did! Maybe Jordan would have liked to keep the West Bank but it was never a crucial issue for them....Neither country settled its citizens in occupied land stealing and expulsing the indigenous population,( we went through this before!). Israel is very different but you wouldn't want to understand!!! They claim exclusivity to the land, a Jewish country...Arab citizens of Israel are reluctuntly tolerated never accepted and plans are on the table for a transfer, mark my words!!!!
ReplyDeleteAnother thing, who told I was fine with either occupation you mentioned, whether the Ottoman, a terrible one, or the French!! Now in the name of the god you believe in I'd like you to stop bringing the Egyptian AND Jordanian "occupation" to the discussion because this is very offensive to me since I explained many times, many times again and again, IN VAIN, the difference with the abject, inhumane, genocidal Israeli occupation... You're obviously under the heavy influence of the nutcase Totten who would like to make you think that everybody, Egypt, Jordan and Israel all share the same resposibility for the situation in Palestine. This is a patent lie and an odious, horrendous intellectual dishonesty!! Egyptians did NOT settle! Egyptians did not crush and subjugate the popultion, they were occupying Gaza, a very small part of Palestine!!! But of course no matter how many times I'm going to say this it's not going to cut it, because you have your agenda and you have your convictions and I'm not interested in this dialog of the deaf! You simply cannot have it both ways!!
Finally, you didn't answer my question about those who invited the Syrians to intervene in Lebanon because you possibly didn't know that it was the Christian right wing factions who were facing an imminent defeat before the Syrians came to the rescue!!!
has America occupied Iraq since June 2004 (when the Iraqi government invited US troops "to intervene to save them during the . . . [Iraqi] civil war?
ReplyDelete----------------
?????!!
What on earth are talking about!! This is insane!! The US were invited to Iraq??!!
The UN unanimously passed a resolution that declared Iraq fully sovereign and its government fully legitimate; and requested a multinational force to assist Iraq. The resolution encouraged countries to contribute to this multinational peace keeping force. This is why the Army level command "Multinational Forces-Iraq" was created in June 2004, to comply with the UN resolution.
ReplyDeleteThe resolution also unambiguously stated tha the Iraqi government could ask the multinational force to leave Iraq at any time at their own discretion. The Iraqi government requested that the multinational forces stay in Iraq in June 2004. Therefore Iraq was under occupation between April 2003 and June 2004.
None of this is disputed TGIA. All of this happened.
Are the other cases listed above occupations?
"occupied land stealing and expulsing the indigenous population,( we went through this before!). Israel is very different but you wouldn't want to understand!!! They claim exclusivity to the land, a Jewish country...Arab citizens of Israel are reluctuntly tolerated never accepted and plans are on the table for a transfer, mark my words!!!! " This helps me understand. The Israeli treatment of their own Palestinian Israeli citizens is very offensive to me. This is why I think civil rights has to be central to the Palestinian struggle. {Why so much focus on the more than 3.5 million Palestinians in the occupied territories versus the 1.5 million Palestinians who are Israeli citizens, or the millions of diaspora Palestinians?} The concept of exclusivity is also very offensive. Arbitrarily confiscating private property is also immoral. Why does Israel have to be a "Jewish" state versus a secular plural free democracy?