By Ramzy BaroudThis week Americans will observe “Thanksgiving” commemorating a romanticized era in their nations record, celebrating the supposed solidarity and brotherhood enjoyed by the first settlers and the indigenous people of what is now called the United States. However, this fantastic tale of friendship contradicts the candid remarks of many notable personalities in US history.
Few can be as blunt regarding the legacy of the United States toward the native people of this land as the 26th President of the United States, Theodore Roosevelt. In his narrative, "The Winning of the West," Roosevelt spoke about the "spread of the English-speaking peoples over the world's wasted spaces." He wrote: "The European settlers moved into an uninhabited waste...the land is really owned by no one.... The settler ousts no one from the land. The truth is, the Indians never had any real title to the soil."
In an interview with the British Sunday Times, on June 15, 1969, former Israeli Prime Minister, Golda Meir made similar claims, stating, "There was no such thing as Palestinians. It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine considering itself as a Palestinian people and we came and threw them out and took their country from them. They did not exist."
While Native Americans and Palestinians were the ancient indigenous peoples of their lands, this was of little or no relevance to the foreign settlers. What really mattered was "Manifest Destiny", what really mattered was "Zionism".
The US government ultimately transferred the Indians from desirable areas to reservations where they were supposed to live quietly and behave. But due to poor conditions and low food supplies some of the men would go out and kill settlers, this was known as a massacre. In retaliation the US army would wipe out entire villages including the women and children, this was known as a battle. Sound familiar? It almost took a century for this propaganda to be overturned and for native Americans to get equal rights including the right to vote. How long will it take in Palestine?
ReplyDeleteAh, what would be Thanksgiving without the obligatory story about American genocide.
ReplyDeleteI always look forward to the spectacle of whatever author is indulging in this annual exercise of self-righteous, congratulations. Such courage in breaking new ground in historical revisionism! Does the author not fear for his life?
C'mon be fair. Do you, yourself ever miss an opportunity to invoke either the Assyrians or the Copts or Hama? Never.
ReplyDeleteBesides it's less gratuitious than you think. The article is less about "American Genocide" than it is about drawing a parallel with the Palestinian experience... I found that interesting.
ReplyDelete<span>Besides this article is not as gratuitious as you might think. It's less about "American Genocide" than it is about drawing a parallel with the Palestinian experience... I found that interesting.</span>
ReplyDelete"Roosevelt goes on: "The world would probably not have gone forward at all, had it not been for the displacement or submersion of savage and barbaric peoples as a consequence of the armed settlement in strange lands of the races who hold in their hands the fate of the years."
ReplyDeleteWhere did I hear something similar already? Oh yeah, from a now banned scum SOB..
It's not all about you,you know.
ReplyDelete"My grandparents, mother and father, along with nearly one million people were expelled from their land after the brutal destruction of 418 villages and towns, and the murder of thousands of Palestinians. They spread in all directions, mostly on foot to clear space for the Chosen People. They settled in refugee camps, concentration camps, which are still in existence until today. My grandparents along with my mother, father and brother are buried in one of those camps.
Ben Gurion retired in 1963, four years before Israel invaded the rest of Palestine, the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem. It created another tragedy, another dispossession, all with the hope that the state of Israel can become purely Jewish. Israel defied international law that called for the right of return for Palestinians refugees. Instead, it instituted its own law, shortly after its establishment in 1948, issuing the right of return for Jews only. Any one of Jewish race, anywhere in the world was and is still allowed to come to Palestine, granted citizenship, to live free of charge on a land that is not his, in a place where he does not belong."
This IS the message of the article in case you missed it!
ReplyDelete"The (Palestinian) people do not hate Israelis because their names are different, or because their language is different. Nor do they hate them because they have anything against the Jewish religion, but because they are occupiers, and as long as they are occupiers, the resistance will go on. The Palestinian resistance shall live as long as the occupation lives."
America consisted of many hundreds of different native American nations, languages and cultures. For the native American tribes that allied themselves with strong horses, things weren't that bad. However, it is important not to generalize.
ReplyDeleteThe relationship between many groups of settlers and native American nations was good.
<span>America consisted of many hundreds of different native American nations, languages and cultures. For the native American tribes that allied themselves with strong horses, things weren't that bad. However, it is important not to generalize.
ReplyDeleteThe relationship between many native American nations and groups of settlers was good.
</span>
vza only wants one half of the Thanksgiving story to be remembered-the half that is a lie. I find this type of willful ignorance very troubling. It is a recipe for having the same terrible thing to happen over and over again-in this case it is allowing genocide to occur hiding behind the myth of the civizing influence of the friendly conquorer.
ReplyDeleteThey need a shock at their annual Thanksgiving play -
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptLD0kCoHG4
"Amerika was built on the slaughter of a people. That is its history. For years we watched movie after movie that demonstrated the white man's benevolence. Jimmy Stewart, the epitome of fairness, puts his arm around Cochise and tells how the Indians and the whites can live in peace if only both sides will be reasonable, responsible and rational (the three R's imperialists always teach the "natives"). "You will find good grazing land on the other side of the mountain," drawls the public relations man. "Take your people and go in peace." Cochise as well as millions of youngsters in the balcony of learning, were being dealt off the bottom of the deck. The Indians should have offed Jimmy Stewart in every picture and we should have cheered ourselves hoarse."
Abbie Hoffman, Steal This Book
There were hundreds of native American nations, languages and cultures. Some did well, others did not. Some nations were allies with a specific group of settlers, others were enemies of a specific group of settlers, others were neither. It is important not to generalize excessively.
ReplyDeleteShut up anan you dumb shit
ReplyDeleteI find your type of willful distortion troubling, too.
ReplyDeleteHere comes the "balalnce" bullshit again
ReplyDeleteOh real nice, v. :(
ReplyDeletevza:
ReplyDeleteI am not distorting what you said-I am merely stating clearly what you are suggesting in your whimsical style. A national rememberance of the settling of America by European colonists without mentioning the Indian genocide would be like remembering the Nazi era, and leaving out any mention of the Holocaust because it's a downer...or remembering the founding of Israel without remembering the Nakba.
V, love you bro. As you are aware, 95% of all native Americans by some estimates died because of germs brought over from Europe.
ReplyDeleteThis is the true cause of the Native American genocide.
Why do I bring it up? To emphasize to V the importance of technological innovation to poor poeple. Technological innovation in health care could have saved the lives of Native Americans in the 1500s. This is why it is so important to facilitate technological innovation, private sector business development and education.
Chief, you mean well; and are quite bright. So I am sorry for attacking you in the past.
V, I made a plea for Palestine here:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2009/11/terrorisms-mask.php
I know you care about your Palestinian brothers and sisters. I think that the best way to do so is by being very polite when you discuss Palestine and to not impugn the motives of nonpalestinians.
I want to smoke what you're smoking..
ReplyDelete<span>I want to smoke the shit you're smoking, anan.
ReplyDelete</span>
<span>As you are aware, 95% of all native Americans by some estimates died because of germs brought over from Europe. </span>
ReplyDelete--------------
Some estimates? Which ones? Yours?
<span>V, I made a plea for Palestine here: </span>
ReplyDelete-----------------
Please don't. I beg you! Some "friends" are worse than enemies.
"My grandparents, mother and father, along with nearly one million people were expelled from their land after the brutal destruction of 418 villages and towns, and the murder of thousands of Palestinians. They spread in all directions, mostly on foot to clear space for the Chosen People. They settled in refugee camps, concentration camps, which are still in existence until today. My grandparents along with my mother, father and brother are buried in one of those camps."
ReplyDeleteAmid this savagery, land grabbing and dehumanization of the victims, both the United States and Israel have managed to convince themselves that the way they treated their victims was in fact humane and civilized. "No other conquering or colonizing nation has ever treated savage owners of the soil with such generosity as has the United States," Roosevelt said.
ReplyDeleteLikewise, what many have called “the most moral army in the world”, many Israeli officials could very well be held to international account for their involvement in Israel’s infamous Operation Cast Lead, which lead the to deaths of nearly 1,500 innocent civilians in the Gaza Strip just about one year ago.
<span>"My grandparents, mother and father, along with nearly one million people were expelled from their land after the brutal destruction of 418 villages and towns, and the murder of thousands of Palestinians. They spread in all directions, mostly on foot to clear space for the Chosen People. They settled in refugee camps, concentration camps, which are still in existence until today. My grandparents along with my mother, father and brother are buried in one of those camps."</span>
Above is an excerpt from the article.
ReplyDelete<span>V, I made a plea for Palestine here:</span>
ReplyDelete-------------
Not a good idea anan.. Personally, I'd read and learn about the subject first. I wouldn't want to sound like a nutcase.
I'd start with Ilan Pappe's "The Etnic Cleansing of Palestine" that I'm reading right now btw. It doesn't make for a cheerful experience, true. Rather a depressing one, but at least I'd know certain facts about what happened in reality and not in a parallel universe...dear anan.
Did it occur to you that the infection by disease was deliberate? Did you know that the Zionists did something similar in Palestine, like the poisoning of the water supply into Acre withtyphoid?
ReplyDelete<span>Did it occur to you that the infection by disease was a deliberate action? Did you know that the Zionists did something similar in Palestine, like the poisoning of the water supply into Acre withtyphoid?</span>
ReplyDelete<span><span>Did it occur to you that the infection by disease was a deliberate action? Did you know that the Zionists did something similar in Palestine, like the poisoning of the water supply into Acre with typhoid?</span></span>
ReplyDeleteListen you little tick (anan), there were slaughters galore and disease was used as a weapon by the colonists. Now, if you want to argue about this I can direct you to about a dozen sources which show news papers to military reports of its use (smallpox). If you want to further argue that they did not know any better, I will point out toyou how Europeans used to catapult plague diseased bodies into cities which were occupied by an enemy and how they fouled water supplies with the same.
ReplyDeleteWhat your problem is anan, is you read history written by asses that have a vested interest in covering up their atrocities, just like you cling to reports from other countries invaded by the invaders - you are in short full of shit. You have no facts nor points in your dribble, just repetitive propaganda.How much you DO NOT know is truly staggering.
We know by scientific technology of agricultural territory by the indigenous population in North America, that there were approximately 15,000,000 indigenous population. By the first census that was taken in the 1800's including the indigenous for the first time, there was less than 100,000 population left. Kiss my ass
Even I, not being an American like anan is for example, who haven't particularly studied in detail American history, I knew that the use of smallpox to annihilate/subdue the indigenous peoples of the Americas was largely used. Claude Levi-Strauss talked about it in a couple of his books..Some people are just brainwashed in ways that boggle the mind!
ReplyDelete<span>Even I, not being an American like you anan for example, who haven't particularly studied in detail American history, I knew that the use of smallpox to annihilate/subdue the indigenous peoples of the Americas was largely used. Claude Levi-Strauss talked about it in a couple of his books..Some people are just brainwashed in ways that boggle the mind!</span>
ReplyDeleteI have heard of one incident of distributing infected blankets. Were there more? By the way, the US was depopulated before the first English settled here because of the natural spread of probably the common cold by the Spanish in Mexico.
ReplyDeleteY'know, every time I despair about "kids today", along comes an example like this of independent thinking, intelligence and courage in the next generation!!
ReplyDelete<span>Y'know, every time I despair about "kids today", along comes an example like this of independent thinking, intelligence and courage in the next generation!!</span>
ReplyDelete(i hope it's clear I am commenting on the video -- kids taking over the thanksgiving play on behalf of indigenous people)
How is it that one spectacularly ignorant person manages to draw so much energy on this blog?
ReplyDelete<span>How is it that one spectacularly ignorant person manages to draw so much energy on this blog?</span>
ReplyDelete----------
What else to do Ann? The options are limited. One is trying to correct the insanity and I confess, it doesn't work, but we still hope it does. Two, ignore him and we get bored and lazy and not much is said.. Three is to ban but that's not something I favor having already banned another demented jerk, fleming, who was more into hate speech than I could possibly stomach.
No rocket science to figure who this guest is. I don't even bother looking up the IP. *Sigh*.
ReplyDeleteanan, why on earth are you going on and on about what you do or do not post at Totten's blog? This is getting beyond silly, you must know!
ReplyDeleteWho is it?
ReplyDeleteBecause I don't know the correct counter arguements, because I am interested in what some of you have to say regarding the arguements given at Totten's blog, and because if any of you were interested in Palestine, wouldn't you want to communicate the perspective of the Palestinians?
ReplyDeleteThe fact is almost no one in the world knows much about Palestine, and most are not particularly interested. Without changing this, Palestine has limited leverage on Israel.
To emphasize, the fundamental challenge for the Palestinians is the lack of sufficient leverage on Israel. With leverage, the Palestinians can force a solution that provides justice to Palestinians. Without leverage, I don't see how the suffering of Palestinians can end.
Ann, do you call everyone in the world that you disagree with "ignorant?" Is this mature?
ReplyDeleteThanks for this passage TGIA. One minor quibble. I would say that Cast Iron killed 800 Hamas soldiers and police; and 500 to 592 Gazan civilians. Killing Hamas fighters is legal under international law, while killing civilians is another matter. These details matter because they provide credibility when discussing these issues with the friends of Israel.
ReplyDeleteBut you must know that if any of them were interested in making those arguments, they would go there themselves? Isn't it obvious they have no respect for Totten, so why do you continue to push for something that they have told you they are not interested in? You just ignore the shower of abuse they rain down upon you and keep beating a dead horse. Let it go and comment on the articles that are posted here.
ReplyDeleteWell anan it's good that you admit to not knowing the answers and if you just make that clear and ask for our views we're all happy to say what we think is right. But the problem is that very rarely you'd part from a know it all attitude especially in relation to Palestine.. The patronising and often assertive tones are very irritating at best.
ReplyDeleteYou are right, it gives an opportunity to sharpen one's arguments. And, it can be entertaining!
ReplyDeleteIt's like when I argue with friends & family even knowing there is no chance they will seriously consider my opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl08n8_b3Sw
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OirEQpRkjks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azCon4I7fWA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_sLNYDU1yQ
BTW, anan. If it could be of any help please forward your questions here and if none of us is capable of answering them which I doubt, I'll forward to you some litterature from those who have studied the subject, Israelis and Arabs..You aren't going to learn that on Totten's. Have you seen that comment on Totten who's only reply to Pappe was that pappe has declared on TV (sic) that he doesn't care about veracity he only cares about pushing his agenda..Where's the link to this insanity..Can't you see BS when it lands on your feet? I'm not registered on Totten and I don't want to, but isn't it a child's play to ask the guy to provide a link because you don't trust what sounds or looks like crap. Can you do that for me?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S6De73cuf0
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pirLWdYeMBg
Anan
ReplyDeleteHere's a good place to start with: Ifamericansknew. Since you trust Mojo, then there you go. He has it in his blog roll. It's a site designed by Americans for Americans. Everything you need to know about the conflict.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html
The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict
Published by Jews for Justice in the Middle East
Even more comprehensive than Pappe is Michael Palumbo's "The Palestinian Catastrophe"
ReplyDeleteA table of contents:
<span>1) Land Without A People (and people without a land)
2) Plan Dalet
3) Deir Yassin
4) The Haifa Tragedy
5) The Fall of Jaffa
6) The City of Peace (Jerusalem)
7) The Road to Safed
8) The Lydda Death March
9) The Troubled Truce
10) Operation Hiram
11) There Could Have Been Peace
12) Theft of a Nation </span>
Here's a review of his book if you're curious:
http://www99.epinions.com/content_5000110212
<span>"The purpose of The Palestinian Catastrophe is to reveal to us how the Zionists went about founding their Jewish nation in Palestine. Palumbo gives strong evidence through his many sources that over 800,000 Palestinians in 350 or more villages were either coerced or forced out of their homes and they fled in terror. Thousands were killed to cause panic or in unbalanced retaliation, even more died as they took to the road with no food or water or any of their belongings. Very soon Jewish immigrants moved into their homes if they were suitable or they were blown up or burned down. Crops were left to rot, livestock and household valuables were looted, sometimes Arab women were raped." </span>
ReplyDelete<span>Even more comprehensive than Pappe is Michael Palumbo's "The Palestinian Catastrophe"
ReplyDelete<span> </span>
Here's a review of his book if you're curious:
http://www99.epinions.com/content_5000110212</span>
If only vza would sprinkle a few racist epithets in her posts I could imagine I was reading fleming again.
ReplyDeleteOh my goodness....now we get into the pettiness. Enjoy yourself!
ReplyDeleteIndeed some people are brainwashed dumb. Like you tgia. The smallpox thing was proven a hoax, created by some asshole wanting to villify americans/american histroy/culture. And assholes like you hang onto as "proof" that america is "the bad guy". Pathetic.
ReplyDeleteYour virulently anti-american message is received loud and clear tgia. Yet another very good reason the US will NEVER support the "Palestinian cause". NEVER.
Im in another US city among many friends for the holidays. The Mideast is not discussed, except perhaps to say how much we loathe the people of that region, and could care less for their fate. It is well understood by "real americans" that the culture of the angry arab type is anathema to america and the american way of life. When the time comes, we will provide no quarter, give no ground, nor show any mercy. Our victory will be absolute and your defeat, utter.
Come on Jemmy, you're better than that arent you? lol
ReplyDeleteImagine this: Im a straight white male, and damned proud of it. Gosh, how racist of me! HHAHA