Millions of Afghan women will be denied their chance to vote in presidential elections this week because there aren't enough female officials to staff the women-only polling stations.
I wonder what percentage of the country thinks women actually need separate polling stations, anyway. No other Muslim country does that, although maybe Saudi would if they gave women the right to vote.
My understanding is that woman only polling stations are only occuring in the most conservative parts of Afghanistan. It is either that or the woman would refuse to vote.
Oh, but you did not know? This is all part of the liberation plan that the USA planned for women in Afghanistan (as well as the religious freaks that attack women at will in Iraq). Deny them suffereage, yes, what liberation! However, that is not all they are denied -
<span>"free at last, free at last, great god almighty, free at last..."
Angry Arab
"Afghanistan has quietly passed a law permitting Shia men to deny their wives food and sustenance if they refuse to obey their husbands' sexual demands, despite international outrage over an earlier version of the legislation which President Hamid Karzai had promised to review. The new final draft of the legislation also grants guardianship of children exclusively to their fathers and grandfathers, and requires women to get permission from their husbands to work. "It also effectively allows a rapist to avoid prosecution by paying 'blood money' to a girl who was injured when he raped her," the US charity Human Rights Watch said."
<span>Oh, but you did not know? This is all part of the liberation plan that the USA planned for women in Afghanistan (as well as the religious freaks that attack women at will in Iraq). Deny them suffrage, yes, what liberation! However, that is not all they are denied -
<span>"free at last, free at last, great god almighty, free at last..."
Angry Arab
"Afghanistan has quietly passed a law permitting Shia men to deny their wives food and sustenance if they refuse to obey their husbands' sexual demands, despite international outrage over an earlier version of the legislation which President Hamid Karzai had promised to review. The new final draft of the legislation also grants guardianship of children exclusively to their fathers and grandfathers, and requires women to get permission from their husbands to work. "It also effectively allows a rapist to avoid prosecution by paying 'blood money' to a girl who was injured when he raped her," the US charity Human Rights Watch said."
Why did I post that above? Do you remember all the idiotic arguments about how women were going to be liberated? Do you remember the blowing of the horns by the US administration and how women were "central" to all of their concerns? It was all bullshit, just like I said - and now take a look at the wonderful "liberation." Do you know how often I do this not only about this subject but countless others? I get really weary at the profound stupidity - it is staggering.
There is a great line in the book written by Eduardo Galeano - Open Veins Of Latin America -
"...so long as misery and illiteracy exist, and so long as the possesors of power continue to carry on with impunity their policy of collective imbecilization through...the mass media."
I like that line, it rivals - "as long as some can make people believe absurdities they can get them to commit atrocities."
And that includes fucking wars of "liberation" brought by imperial powers that do not give a shit about people at all, and those imbeciles that believe them. They will keep on cheering and participating in atrocities.
Add on to the above - "...and helping to enrich the few."
Have you ever noticed that this is the case with these wars of "liberation" in foreign countries, that the women and children are worse off? In fact, that the oppressions are codified into law?
Let me tell you why this happens. The motive of the inhabitants is quite immaterial, it is what the conquering power does with these "political decisions." It is not because they are nice and respectful of the wishes of men in the invaded territory, but because they want to see division - whatever type, gender, religious bought to a taut degree, because this weakens the chances of any type of successful resistance. If you split them by gender, you will never have a strong resistance. The ax always falls on the neck of the weakest in society, which would naturally have the tendency to desire change.
If you do not believe me than just study history, and you will see things like this repetitively employed.
<span>Add on to the above - "...and helping to enrich the few."
Have you ever noticed that this is the case with these wars of "liberation" in foreign countries, that the women and children are worse off? In fact, that the oppressions are codified into law?
Let me tell you why this happens. The motive of the inhabitants is quite immaterial, it is what the conquering power does with these "political decisions." It is not because they are nice and respectful of the wishes of men in the invaded territory, but because they want to see division - whatever type, gender, religious bought to a taut degree (but not to the point of war like conflict), because this weakens the chances of any type of successful resistance. If you split them by gender, you will never have a strong resistance. The ax always falls on the neck of the weakest in society, which would naturally have the tendency to desire change.
If you do not believe me than just study history, and you will see things like this repetitively employed.</span>
V, it is tiring to interact with you, because you don't reseach Afghanistan.
Some very basic facts: -Woman will represent about half of all Afghan voters; this gives woman the power to gradually win their rights . . . a process that will take decades. -Afghanistan's education budget is substantially greater than the annual revenue of the GIRoA (Gov of Islamic Republic of Afghanistan); it is almost entirely funded by foreigners. This is comparable to say the US spending $4 trillion a year on education even thought the US only collects $3 trillion a year in tax revenues. -Afghanistan use to have about one thousand freshman in college in 2001, all men. -Afghanistan use to have about one million boys in school and almost no girls in school (except in the liberated free Northern Alliance areas) in 2001 -Afghanistan now has 7 million children in school, 33% of whom are girls -Afghanistan now has 45,000 freshman in college, many of which are woman. -Afghanistan has far more roads than ever before -Afghanistan has far more rails than it had in 2001 (perhaps the most ever, but I don't have the rail data from the 1970s to compare the current rail system against.) -Afghanistan has far more business development and private sector business activity than it had in 2001 -Life expectancy has skyrocketed since 2001 -Most Afghans have been immunized -Afghan government + internationally funded aid to Afghanistan = about ten times Afghanistan's annual tax revenue. To put this into context, this would be like America collecting $3 trillion in tax revenue, spending $30 trillion in tax revenue, and getting $27 trillion in grants per year
V, nothing stated above is controvertial. Please feel free to research all the above at your leisure. What all of this means is that woman have many more opportunities to fight for their own freedom now than they have since at least the mid 1970s. This is the best the world can do for Afghan woman; do you really think that Afghan woman expect more from the world than this? Afghan woman have to take advantage of these new opportunities to fight for their own freedom and they are.
V, do you support violent attacks against the elected GIRoA, and the ANA and ANP that are loyal to it? ANA = Afghan National Army. ANP = Afghan National Police. I think the answer to this question is yes, but I am not positive.
Well than anand, you will have a lot of well educated long living females in Afghanistan with NO RIGHTS. That is (they will live longer), if they are not killed first by the "friendly" Western coalitions indiscriminate bombing! They will specifically have no rights because of the predetermined support for what I posted above for the SAME ulterior reasons. One should have known that your ignorant head , with its equally spurious bullshit "facts" would rear. I despise all puppet governments and people who support them.
v, any government in the world that disagrees with you is a "puppet government" of the elites you despise?
V, do you support violent attacks against the GIRoA, ANA and ANP? It isn't a hard question to ask.
V, could you please find any examples of civilian deaths from ISAF air strikes that took place in July and August? I am not aware of any (although this doesn't mean that one or two such air strikes happened.) Part of the consequence of restricting ISAF close air support is that ANA, ANP and ISAF casualties have skyrocketed.
Your not even worth a response anand, I am on to a related but different subject.
One matter, which is a mild form of a backhanded support for the conservative view of some of the men in Afghanistan. If my country were invaded by hostile forces and puppet government were set up, I would be really worried about my mothers, sisters or wifes as an American man let alone an Afghan - and the general safety of all other women. It would be hard for me to say - "yes honey, go out and shop at the market," etc. All of my instincts would enter protective mode, so what some might see as being a bit oppressive might just be concern for safety. Just a thought - because I know how hard it is to think in someones shoes in a war zone when you are sleeping safely in your beds and leading relatively "normal" lives.
V, I don't think you are evil; rather you strike me as confused.
Are all elected governments "puppet governments" or only the ones you disagree with?
V, please look up any of the more than 20 opinion polls of Afghans. Please find a single one that didn't demonstrate that Afghans "LOVED" their ANA. The ANA is by far the most popular, beloved and respected institution in Afghanistan. Please find any evidence or arguements that assert otherwise. You can't.
By contrast, in the Feb 9, 2009, poll I have linked to many times on this blog: 91% of Afghans had an unfavorable view of the Taliban 92% of Afghans had an unfavorable view of the Osama Bin Laden 91% of Afghans had an unfavorable view of the Pakistan.
V, what would it take for you to support the Afghans in their quest for freedom? What would it take for you to support the ANA?
Pardon me anand, but you do NOT represent the Afghan people, you are nothing but a shill for murderous and exploitative occupation. The freedom that the Afghan people do desire is American boots and company moved off their soil yesterday.
The best thing thing the Americans can do is kill the military industrial empire as soon as possible, remove all bases from foreign soil and regroup all of the savings to the American people. This by far is one of the top priorities that the American people should get behind and demand.
As far as you are concerned anand, go seek psychiatric help immediately.
v, the Afghans are fighting for their freedom from Al Qaeda and Taliban occupation. (Which they see as Pakistani, Saudi, Chechan occupation.) Don't take my word for it. Research it on your own.
Do none of the public opinion polls of Afghans since 2001 mean anything to you V? Is the opinion of Afghans irrelevant to you?
I don't deny that I admire and support the ANA. I don't deny that I want the ANA to defeat Al Qaeda and its allies. And I don't deny that I am encouraged that the ANA is so motivated to fight AQ, the Taliban and its allies.
Do you support violent attacks against the GIRoA, ANA and ANP? This goes for everyone else on this blog.
The US-installed government of president Hamid Karzai has almost no authority, and what little it does have is limited to the capital, Kabul. Karzai cannot leave Kabul or even travel within Kabul without a large contingent of US bodyguards. In the rest of the country, civil war reigns.
The US-installed government of president Hamid Karzai is made up of brutal warlords and fundamentalists. Violence, particularly against women, draconian Islamic law and corruption are more prevalent than ever. The Karzai government has almost no authority, and what little it does have is limited to the capital, Kabul. Karzai cannot leave Kabul or even travel within Kabul without a large contingent of US bodyguards. In the rest of the country, civil war reigns.
<span>The US-installed government of president Hamid Karzai is made up of brutal warlords and fundamentalists. Violence, particularly against women, draconian Islamic law and corruption are more prevalent than ever. The Karzai government has almost no authority, and what little it does have is limited to the capital, Kabul. Karzai cannot leave Kabul or even travel within Kabul without a large contingent of US bodyguards. In the rest of the country, civil war reigns.</span>
<span><span>The US-installed government of president Hamid Karzai is made up of brutal warlords and fundamentalists. Violence, particularly against women, draconian Islamic law and corruption are more prevalent than ever. </span></span>
R.S. the international community as a whole established the interim Afghan government in December, 2001, at Bonn.
Iran initially pushed for Karzai, a long time close friend of theirs. Pakistan agreed to Iran's choice. This is how Karzai became president.
Remember how the Taliban and Al Qaeda were defeated in 2001. When the Taliban finally surrendered in 2001, there were only 326 US special forces, maybe 147 CIA agents, and a couple hundred special forces and intelligence agents from a variety of other countries (Iran, Europe, Russia, Turkey etc.) The Afghan resistance defeated the Taliban and won their own freedom.
Keep in mind that by definition every resistance leader in world history (except for the nonviolent ones) has been a warlord. Afghanistan is no different. Karzai and the international community faced a fait accomplice on the ground in 2001 that warlords controled the entire country. Karzai and the international community had no desire to fight the warlords or Afghan resistance; instead the Afghan resistance was brought into the Afghan government.
However since 2001, a powerful ANA and ANP have been built by the international community and the Afghans. The warlord militias have been dismantled and replaced by ANA and ANP. R.S. can you name any places in Afghanistan controlled by warlords? There are a few places in Kandahar and Helmand controlled by Taliban allied warlords, but that is about it.
R.S., the interumn government no longer rules Afghanistan. Afghanistan is now a free democracy. In a few days the Afghans elect their president (or more likely the two candidates who will run off against each other for president.)
Can you prove your claim on draconian Islamic Law. You can't, because it is abserd. Comparing the current GIRoA and its laws to the Taliban is absurd. Obviously, Afghanistan is a mixed Shariah/modern law place; but it is much better than during the Taliban time.
Afghanistan has a problems with ordinary and organized crime; terrorism, and insurgency near the Pakistan border. In my view, the intermediate run solution to this is to expand the ANA and ANP. This is now being done.
Corruption is a huge problem. Part of the problem is that Afghanistan is a democracy that does not spend its own money, but the money of foreigners. Since 90% of all Afghan spending is paid for with foreign grants; there is a lack of accountability on the part of GIRoA elected officials. How to solve this isn't easy.
R.S. do you think the international community should directly run the Afghan school system since they pay for it; or should they let the GIRoA run it even though it is almost completely paid for with foreign money? These are the kinds of issues the friends of Afghanistan will have to think through to deal with curruption.
R.S. Do you support violent attacks against the elected GIRoA, ANA, and ANP?
<span style="">The Karazai government has almost no authority, and what little it does have is limited to the capital, Kabul. Karzai cannot leave Kabul or even travel within Kabul without a large contingent of US bodyguards. </span>
<p style=""><span style="">Journalist Robert Fisk describes Abdul Rashid Dustum (one of Anand’s hero’s that were brought into the Afghan government) </span> <p style=""><span style="">"one of the most powerful [Northern] Alliance gangsters, whose men looted and raped their way through the suburbs of Kabul in the Nineties. They chose girls for forced marriages, murdered their families... had a habit of indulging in massacres.”</span>
<span>Journalist Robert Fisk describes Abdul Rashid Dustum (one of Anand’s hero’s that were brought into the Afghan government) </span> <span>"one of the most powerful [Northern] Alliance gangsters, whose men looted and raped their way through the suburbs of Kabul in the Nineties. They chose girls for forced marriages, murdered their families... had a habit of indulging in massacres.”</span>
<span><span>Journalist Robert Fisk describes Abdul Rashid Dustum (one of Anand’s heros that were brought into the Afghan government) </span> <span>"one of the most powerful [Northern] Alliance gangsters, whose men looted and raped their way through the suburbs of Kabul in the Nineties. They chose girls for forced marriages, murdered their families... had a habit of indulging in massacres.”</span></span>
Isnt it terrible rs? The best people we can find to do business with in Afghanistan are indeed awful. Thugs, murderers, rapists, these are the kinds of individuals that rise to prominence and are considered great leaders in shitholes like Afghanistan.
Can you imagine if we instead chose to ally ourselves with folks from the bottom of the Afghanistan barrel? Now that IS scary! LOL
<span>"Isnt it terrible rs? The best people we can find to do business with in Afghanistan are indeed awful. Thugs, murderers, rapists, these are the kinds of individuals that rise to prominence and are considered great leaders in shitholes like Afghanistan."</span>
Not really fleming, it is who we want to choose, why? We want and need people like this because we have no good intention for the people, we just want those who sell them short. Three other examples (there are hundreds of others) - instead of supporting a man like Mustafa Barghouti in Palestine, we support Dahlan gangster and call him our son of a bitch; in Honduras we will support someone like Zelaya we will instead support Roberto Micheletti who wants the status quo of robbing the people to stand; in Iraq we will put in individuals in power who do not even live there but have villas in England, etc. The list is endless and spans history.
So the answer is we choose according to our (US governments) interest, and the intrest is always the full exploitation of the natural and human resources of the people. Those are the indisputable facts, for which there is no counter arguments.
You know v that governments dont really exist. Either do corporations. At the end of the day, they are just collections of individuals doing what they do. Thus a government has no conscious, per se. It is merely a reflection of the actions and policies of the individuals who comprise it.
Therefore you must identify specific individuals and their specific acts. To villiy "the govt" is impossible - who are you going to jail or execute? The govt? There is no govt.
Also, you cannot show or prove intent without getting either a confession or a statement from an indiviidual(s). Without either you are assuming intent based on certain actions or results. You have no evidence that the INTENT of a GOVT (which doesnt really exist) is to exploit people or resources. You are projecting based on assumptions within your mind without knowing FACTS, ie, memos or documents or speeches saying "we want to exploit so and so...."
Your arguments are flacid and spurioius. The only court they would hold up in is a kangaroo.
Fleming your second comment is insightful. "governments" don't really exist.
But please do not insult Afghans. There are many good and capable Afghans that all of us can respect and admire. It is really hurtful for me to read your words . . . whose purpose seems hateful and intended to wound.
On the contrary fleming, there is a government which has parts but subsists as a whole. That is like saying - oh, there is no army invading whatever country, just a collection of individuals - there are no churches, they are just a collection of individuals, there are no races just individuals that look the same. In short it is a ridiculous argument, I am sorry to say, just like all of your other arguments.
Secondly, I have documents that rflect so many of these acts, they are almost countless. I have repetitive acts throughout history since the beginning of the country that reflect this pattern, every group has a pattern - and this one is clear. You might as well deny the connectness of events to a purpose and say things just happen wwith no plans, that you are a stochastic, and "shit just happens."
One of these arguments would have sufficed to show that you have no idea what you are talking about - two ideas just leaves no doubt in anyones mind. Give it a rest, you are losing your mind.
Again V: Acts are not the same as intent. You equate the two based on your personal assumptions. You need to re-examine your code of logic.
An army carries out the orders of individuals. Do you not understand this? The Generals/President give specific orders: Take this town; Attack this hill; Bomb this enemy emplacement. Specific acts designed to accomplish specific goals. No "intent" other than to defeat the enemy -- unless you can show us otherwise.
You are really thick with your own prejudices V.
BTW, tgia will probably delete this post - again. He cant control himself when it comes to my comments. :)
This year nothing can be done about it. 5 years ago, hopefully enough woman officials will be trained.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what percentage of the country thinks women actually need separate polling stations, anyway. No other Muslim country does that, although maybe Saudi would if they gave women the right to vote.
ReplyDeleteMy understanding is that woman only polling stations are only occuring in the most conservative parts of Afghanistan. It is either that or the woman would refuse to vote.
ReplyDeleteOh, but you did not know? This is all part of the liberation plan that the USA planned for women in Afghanistan (as well as the religious freaks that attack women at will in Iraq). Deny them suffereage, yes, what liberation! However, that is not all they are denied -
ReplyDelete<span>"free at last, free at last, great god almighty, free at last..."
Angry Arab
"Afghanistan has quietly passed a law permitting Shia men to deny their wives food and sustenance if they refuse to obey their husbands' sexual demands, despite international outrage over an earlier version of the legislation which President Hamid Karzai had promised to review. The new final draft of the legislation also grants guardianship of children exclusively to their fathers and grandfathers, and requires women to get permission from their husbands to work. "It also effectively allows a rapist to avoid prosecution by paying 'blood money' to a girl who was injured when he raped her," the US charity Human Rights Watch said."
Liberated!!</span>
<span>Oh, but you did not know? This is all part of the liberation plan that the USA planned for women in Afghanistan (as well as the religious freaks that attack women at will in Iraq). Deny them suffrage, yes, what liberation! However, that is not all they are denied -
ReplyDelete<span>"free at last, free at last, great god almighty, free at last..."
Angry Arab
"Afghanistan has quietly passed a law permitting Shia men to deny their wives food and sustenance if they refuse to obey their husbands' sexual demands, despite international outrage over an earlier version of the legislation which President Hamid Karzai had promised to review. The new final draft of the legislation also grants guardianship of children exclusively to their fathers and grandfathers, and requires women to get permission from their husbands to work. "It also effectively allows a rapist to avoid prosecution by paying 'blood money' to a girl who was injured when he raped her," the US charity Human Rights Watch said."
Liberated!!</span></span>
Why did I post that above? Do you remember all the idiotic arguments about how women were going to be liberated? Do you remember the blowing of the horns by the US administration and how women were "central" to all of their concerns? It was all bullshit, just like I said - and now take a look at the wonderful "liberation." Do you know how often I do this not only about this subject but countless others? I get really weary at the profound stupidity - it is staggering.
ReplyDeleteThere is a great line in the book written by Eduardo Galeano - Open Veins Of Latin America -
ReplyDelete"...so long as misery and illiteracy exist, and so long as the possesors of power continue to carry on with impunity their policy of collective imbecilization through...the mass media."
I like that line, it rivals - "as long as some can make people believe absurdities they can get them to commit atrocities."
And that includes fucking wars of "liberation" brought by imperial powers that do not give a shit about people at all, and those imbeciles that believe them. They will keep on cheering and participating in atrocities.
Add on to the above - "...and helping to enrich the few."
ReplyDeleteHave you ever noticed that this is the case with these wars of "liberation" in foreign countries, that the women and children are worse off? In fact, that the oppressions are codified into law?
Let me tell you why this happens. The motive of the inhabitants is quite immaterial, it is what the conquering power does with these "political decisions." It is not because they are nice and respectful of the wishes of men in the invaded territory, but because they want to see division - whatever type, gender, religious bought to a taut degree, because this weakens the chances of any type of successful resistance. If you split them by gender, you will never have a strong resistance. The ax always falls on the neck of the weakest in society, which would naturally have the tendency to desire change.
If you do not believe me than just study history, and you will see things like this repetitively employed.
<span>Add on to the above - "...and helping to enrich the few."
ReplyDeleteHave you ever noticed that this is the case with these wars of "liberation" in foreign countries, that the women and children are worse off? In fact, that the oppressions are codified into law?
Let me tell you why this happens. The motive of the inhabitants is quite immaterial, it is what the conquering power does with these "political decisions." It is not because they are nice and respectful of the wishes of men in the invaded territory, but because they want to see division - whatever type, gender, religious bought to a taut degree (but not to the point of war like conflict), because this weakens the chances of any type of successful resistance. If you split them by gender, you will never have a strong resistance. The ax always falls on the neck of the weakest in society, which would naturally have the tendency to desire change.
If you do not believe me than just study history, and you will see things like this repetitively employed.</span>
V, it is tiring to interact with you, because you don't reseach Afghanistan.
ReplyDeleteSome very basic facts:
-Woman will represent about half of all Afghan voters; this gives woman the power to gradually win their rights . . . a process that will take decades.
-Afghanistan's education budget is substantially greater than the annual revenue of the GIRoA (Gov of Islamic Republic of Afghanistan); it is almost entirely funded by foreigners. This is comparable to say the US spending $4 trillion a year on education even thought the US only collects $3 trillion a year in tax revenues.
-Afghanistan use to have about one thousand freshman in college in 2001, all men.
-Afghanistan use to have about one million boys in school and almost no girls in school (except in the liberated free Northern Alliance areas) in 2001
-Afghanistan now has 7 million children in school, 33% of whom are girls
-Afghanistan now has 45,000 freshman in college, many of which are woman.
-Afghanistan has far more roads than ever before
-Afghanistan has far more rails than it had in 2001 (perhaps the most ever, but I don't have the rail data from the 1970s to compare the current rail system against.)
-Afghanistan has far more business development and private sector business activity than it had in 2001
-Life expectancy has skyrocketed since 2001
-Most Afghans have been immunized
-Afghan government + internationally funded aid to Afghanistan = about ten times Afghanistan's annual tax revenue. To put this into context, this would be like America collecting $3 trillion in tax revenue, spending $30 trillion in tax revenue, and getting $27 trillion in grants per year
V, nothing stated above is controvertial. Please feel free to research all the above at your leisure. What all of this means is that woman have many more opportunities to fight for their own freedom now than they have since at least the mid 1970s. This is the best the world can do for Afghan woman; do you really think that Afghan woman expect more from the world than this? Afghan woman have to take advantage of these new opportunities to fight for their own freedom and they are.
V, do you support violent attacks against the elected GIRoA, and the ANA and ANP that are loyal to it? ANA = Afghan National Army. ANP = Afghan National Police. I think the answer to this question is yes, but I am not positive.
Well than anand, you will have a lot of well educated long living females in Afghanistan with NO RIGHTS. That is (they will live longer), if they are not killed first by the "friendly" Western coalitions indiscriminate bombing! They will specifically have no rights because of the predetermined support for what I posted above for the SAME ulterior reasons. One should have known that your ignorant head , with its equally spurious bullshit "facts" would rear. I despise all puppet governments and people who support them.
ReplyDeleteOh. and by the way anand, the multiplicity of your words is just like so much more dirt to bury you and your skewed and ignorant screed.
ReplyDeletev, any government in the world that disagrees with you is a "puppet government" of the elites you despise?
ReplyDeleteV, do you support violent attacks against the GIRoA, ANA and ANP? It isn't a hard question to ask.
V, could you please find any examples of civilian deaths from ISAF air strikes that took place in July and August? I am not aware of any (although this doesn't mean that one or two such air strikes happened.) Part of the consequence of restricting ISAF close air support is that ANA, ANP and ISAF casualties have skyrocketed.
Your not even worth a response anand, I am on to a related but different subject.
ReplyDeleteOne matter, which is a mild form of a backhanded support for the conservative view of some of the men in Afghanistan. If my country were invaded by hostile forces and puppet government were set up, I would be really worried about my mothers, sisters or wifes as an American man let alone an Afghan - and the general safety of all other women. It would be hard for me to say - "yes honey, go out and shop at the market," etc. All of my instincts would enter protective mode, so what some might see as being a bit oppressive might just be concern for safety. Just a thought - because I know how hard it is to think in someones shoes in a war zone when you are sleeping safely in your beds and leading relatively "normal" lives.
V, I don't think you are evil; rather you strike me as confused.
ReplyDeleteAre all elected governments "puppet governments" or only the ones you disagree with?
V, please look up any of the more than 20 opinion polls of Afghans. Please find a single one that didn't demonstrate that Afghans "LOVED" their ANA. The ANA is by far the most popular, beloved and respected institution in Afghanistan. Please find any evidence or arguements that assert otherwise. You can't.
By contrast, in the Feb 9, 2009, poll I have linked to many times on this blog:
91% of Afghans had an unfavorable view of the Taliban
92% of Afghans had an unfavorable view of the Osama Bin Laden
91% of Afghans had an unfavorable view of the Pakistan.
V, what would it take for you to support the Afghans in their quest for freedom? What would it take for you to support the ANA?
Pardon me anand, but you do NOT represent the Afghan people, you are nothing but a shill for murderous and exploitative occupation. The freedom that the Afghan people do desire is American boots and company moved off their soil yesterday.
ReplyDeleteThe best thing thing the Americans can do is kill the military industrial empire as soon as possible, remove all bases from foreign soil and regroup all of the savings to the American people. This by far is one of the top priorities that the American people should get behind and demand.
As far as you are concerned anand, go seek psychiatric help immediately.
v, the Afghans are fighting for their freedom from Al Qaeda and Taliban occupation. (Which they see as Pakistani, Saudi, Chechan occupation.) Don't take my word for it. Research it on your own.
ReplyDeleteDo none of the public opinion polls of Afghans since 2001 mean anything to you V? Is the opinion of Afghans irrelevant to you?
I don't deny that I admire and support the ANA. I don't deny that I want the ANA to defeat Al Qaeda and its allies. And I don't deny that I am encouraged that the ANA is so motivated to fight AQ, the Taliban and its allies.
Do you support violent attacks against the GIRoA, ANA and ANP? This goes for everyone else on this blog.
The US-installed government of president Hamid Karzai has almost no authority, and what little it does have is limited to the capital, Kabul. Karzai cannot leave Kabul or even travel within Kabul without a large contingent of US bodyguards. In the rest of the country, civil war reigns.
ReplyDeleteThe US-installed government of president Hamid Karzai is made up of brutal warlords and fundamentalists. Violence, particularly against women, draconian Islamic law and corruption are more prevalent than ever.
ReplyDeleteThe Karzai government has almost no authority, and what little it does have is limited to the capital, Kabul. Karzai cannot leave Kabul or even travel within Kabul without a large contingent of US bodyguards. In the rest of the country, civil war reigns.
<span>The US-installed government of president Hamid Karzai is made up of brutal warlords and fundamentalists. Violence, particularly against women, draconian Islamic law and corruption are more prevalent than ever. The Karzai government has almost no authority, and what little it does have is limited to the capital, Kabul. Karzai cannot leave Kabul or even travel within Kabul without a large contingent of US bodyguards. In the rest of the country, civil war reigns.</span>
ReplyDelete<span><span>The US-installed government of president Hamid Karzai is made up of brutal warlords and fundamentalists. Violence, particularly against women, draconian Islamic law and corruption are more prevalent than ever. </span></span>
ReplyDeleteR.S. the international community as a whole established the interim Afghan government in December, 2001, at Bonn.
ReplyDeleteIran initially pushed for Karzai, a long time close friend of theirs. Pakistan agreed to Iran's choice. This is how Karzai became president.
Remember how the Taliban and Al Qaeda were defeated in 2001. When the Taliban finally surrendered in 2001, there were only 326 US special forces, maybe 147 CIA agents, and a couple hundred special forces and intelligence agents from a variety of other countries (Iran, Europe, Russia, Turkey etc.) The Afghan resistance defeated the Taliban and won their own freedom.
Keep in mind that by definition every resistance leader in world history (except for the nonviolent ones) has been a warlord. Afghanistan is no different. Karzai and the international community faced a fait accomplice on the ground in 2001 that warlords controled the entire country. Karzai and the international community had no desire to fight the warlords or Afghan resistance; instead the Afghan resistance was brought into the Afghan government.
However since 2001, a powerful ANA and ANP have been built by the international community and the Afghans. The warlord militias have been dismantled and replaced by ANA and ANP. R.S. can you name any places in Afghanistan controlled by warlords? There are a few places in Kandahar and Helmand controlled by Taliban allied warlords, but that is about it.
R.S., the interumn government no longer rules Afghanistan. Afghanistan is now a free democracy. In a few days the Afghans elect their president (or more likely the two candidates who will run off against each other for president.)
Can you prove your claim on draconian Islamic Law. You can't, because it is abserd. Comparing the current GIRoA and its laws to the Taliban is absurd. Obviously, Afghanistan is a mixed Shariah/modern law place; but it is much better than during the Taliban time.
Afghanistan has a problems with ordinary and organized crime; terrorism, and insurgency near the Pakistan border. In my view, the intermediate run solution to this is to expand the ANA and ANP. This is now being done.
Corruption is a huge problem. Part of the problem is that Afghanistan is a democracy that does not spend its own money, but the money of foreigners. Since 90% of all Afghan spending is paid for with foreign grants; there is a lack of accountability on the part of GIRoA elected officials. How to solve this isn't easy.
ReplyDeleteR.S. do you think the international community should directly run the Afghan school system since they pay for it; or should they let the GIRoA run it even though it is almost completely paid for with foreign money? These are the kinds of issues the friends of Afghanistan will have to think through to deal with curruption.
R.S. Do you support violent attacks against the elected GIRoA, ANA, and ANP?
<span style="">The Karazai government has almost no authority, and what little it does have is limited to the capital, Kabul. Karzai cannot leave Kabul or even travel within Kabul without a large contingent of US bodyguards. </span>
ReplyDelete<p style=""><span style="">Journalist Robert Fisk describes Abdul Rashid Dustum (one of Anand’s hero’s that were brought into the Afghan government) </span>
ReplyDelete<p style=""><span style="">"one of the most powerful [Northern] Alliance gangsters, whose men looted and raped their way through the suburbs of Kabul in the Nineties. They chose girls for forced marriages, murdered their families... had a habit of indulging in massacres.”</span>
<span>Journalist Robert Fisk describes Abdul Rashid Dustum (one of Anand’s hero’s that were brought into the Afghan government) </span>
ReplyDelete<span>"one of the most powerful [Northern] Alliance gangsters, whose men looted and raped their way through the suburbs of Kabul in the Nineties. They chose girls for forced marriages, murdered their families... had a habit of indulging in massacres.”</span>
<span><span>Journalist Robert Fisk describes Abdul Rashid Dustum (one of Anand’s heros that were brought into the Afghan government) </span>
ReplyDelete<span>"one of the most powerful [Northern] Alliance gangsters, whose men looted and raped their way through the suburbs of Kabul in the Nineties. They chose girls for forced marriages, murdered their families... had a habit of indulging in massacres.”</span></span>
Isnt it terrible rs? The best people we can find to do business with in Afghanistan are indeed awful. Thugs, murderers, rapists, these are the kinds of individuals that rise to prominence and are considered great leaders in shitholes like Afghanistan.
ReplyDeleteCan you imagine if we instead chose to ally ourselves with folks from the bottom of the Afghanistan barrel? Now that IS scary! LOL
<span>"Isnt it terrible rs? The best people we can find to do business with in Afghanistan are indeed awful. Thugs, murderers, rapists, these are the kinds of individuals that rise to prominence and are considered great leaders in shitholes like Afghanistan."</span>
ReplyDeleteNot really fleming, it is who we want to choose, why? We want and need people like this because we have no good intention for the people, we just want those who sell them short. Three other examples (there are hundreds of others) - instead of supporting a man like Mustafa Barghouti in Palestine, we support Dahlan gangster and call him our son of a bitch; in Honduras we will support someone like Zelaya we will instead support Roberto Micheletti who wants the status quo of robbing the people to stand; in Iraq we will put in individuals in power who do not even live there but have villas in England, etc. The list is endless and spans history.
So the answer is we choose according to our (US governments) interest, and the intrest is always the full exploitation of the natural and human resources of the people. Those are the indisputable facts, for which there is no counter arguments.
You know v that governments dont really exist. Either do corporations. At the end of the day, they are just collections of individuals doing what they do. Thus a government has no conscious, per se. It is merely a reflection of the actions and policies of the individuals who comprise it.
ReplyDeleteTherefore you must identify specific individuals and their specific acts. To villiy "the govt" is impossible - who are you going to jail or execute? The govt? There is no govt.
Also, you cannot show or prove intent without getting either a confession or a statement from an indiviidual(s). Without either you are assuming intent based on certain actions or results. You have no evidence that the INTENT of a GOVT (which doesnt really exist) is to exploit people or resources. You are projecting based on assumptions within your mind without knowing FACTS, ie, memos or documents or speeches saying "we want to exploit so and so...."
Your arguments are flacid and spurioius. The only court they would hold up in is a kangaroo.
Fleming your second comment is insightful. "governments" don't really exist.
ReplyDeleteBut please do not insult Afghans. There are many good and capable Afghans that all of us can respect and admire. It is really hurtful for me to read your words . . . whose purpose seems hateful and intended to wound.
On the contrary fleming, there is a government which has parts but subsists as a whole. That is like saying - oh, there is no army invading whatever country, just a collection of individuals - there are no churches, they are just a collection of individuals, there are no races just individuals that look the same. In short it is a ridiculous argument, I am sorry to say, just like all of your other arguments.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, I have documents that rflect so many of these acts, they are almost countless. I have repetitive acts throughout history since the beginning of the country that reflect this pattern, every group has a pattern - and this one is clear. You might as well deny the connectness of events to a purpose and say things just happen wwith no plans, that you are a stochastic, and "shit just happens."
One of these arguments would have sufficed to show that you have no idea what you are talking about - two ideas just leaves no doubt in anyones mind. Give it a rest, you are losing your mind.
Again V: Acts are not the same as intent. You equate the two based on your personal assumptions. You need to re-examine your code of logic.
ReplyDeleteAn army carries out the orders of individuals. Do you not understand this? The Generals/President give specific orders: Take this town; Attack this hill; Bomb this enemy emplacement. Specific acts designed to accomplish specific goals. No "intent" other than to defeat the enemy -- unless you can show us otherwise.
You are really thick with your own prejudices V.
BTW, tgia will probably delete this post - again. He cant control himself when it comes to my comments. :)