"...... since we set out to go into Iraq on much the same kinds of lies in 2002 that sent us into Vietnam when I was in the Pentagon, since then, I’ve been saying to officials in the government, “Don’t do what I did. Do what I wish I had done in ’63 or ’64, before we had entered the war, before the bombs had fallen. Don’t wait, as I did, ’til we were in the war and the war was essentially unstoppable, before telling the truth about the hopelessness, understood within the government, and the impossibility—the unlikelihood of any kind of victory there. But do it now.”
Democracy now
What a stupid uninformed imbicile<span>.</span> How well would Daniel Ellsberg stack up against one of the lions in the Afghan National Army (ANA) Commando?
ReplyDeleteThe ANA would tear him apart in a mono e mono fight.
Yes, the Taliban have many high quality Pakistani, Arab, Chechen, Uighar, Uzbek, Dagastani, fighters in their ranks. Yes, the ANA isn't yet large enough or funded well enough to defeat them.
But give the ANA the tools and the ANA will smash the enemies of Afghanistan.
If Daniel Ellsberg chooses to personally lead his beloved Al Qaeda, Lashkar e Taiba, Jaish e Mohammed, Lashkar e Jhanvi, TTP, TNSM, Chechens, Uzbeks (IJU, IMU) and Uighars (many fight for Lashkar e Taiba), Haqqani and Hekmatyur in battle against the ANA; then the ANA will provide him a free one way ticket to the deep down under.
Deep down under means Jahannum, just to be clear.
I saw some troubling news from Michael Totten:
ReplyDeleteThis article is written by a prominent Palestinian author:
http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=172106
"<span>Journalists who met Israeli colleagues face expulsion from Fatah-run syndicate.</span>"
"<span>Three of the journalists – Lana Shaheen, Mueen al-Hilu and Abdel Salam Abu Askar – are from the Gaza Strip, while another two are from the <span>West Bank</span>.
They now face expulsion from the Fatah-controlled Palestinian Journalists Syndicate on charges of promoting normalization with Israel.
The syndicate decided to establish a committee to question the journalists who went to Tel Aviv about their motives and the identity of the party behind the invitation.
The syndicate is also planning to hold an emergency meeting next week to discuss punitive measures against Palestinian journalists who defy a ban on normalization of relations with Israel.
Hamas has also condemned the Palestinian journalists as “collaborators.” Hamas officials claimed that some of the journalists were known as supporters of Mohammed Dahlan, a former Fatah security commander in the Gaza Strip.
Several Hamas-affiliated groups said that the journalists who visited Israel would be put on a “black list” – a sign that they would be boycotted by their colleagues and the government institutions.</span>"
TGIA, I couldn't imagine something like this happening to Indian journalists visiting Pakistan, or South Korean/Japanese jounalists visiting North Korea; or to Malaysian journalists, or Brazilian/Chilean/Argentine/Mexican/Thai journalists.
I couldn't imagine the Indian freedom fighters not allowing Indian journalists to meet Brits.
The only region in the world where stuff like this happens is in Iran, the Arab world, Cuba, North Korea, and some African dictatorships
Isn't the goal of Palestine to become a successful, prosperous, <span>"FREE,"</span> democratic country. Either through a one state solution or through a two state solution.
Restricting journalistic freedom is not the path to "<span>freedom."</span> It is also abnormal. Stuff like this enormously damages the reputation of the Palestinian Authority and Hamas in Latin America, Asia and Africa; and for no good reason. The world doesn't understand stuff like this.
In any case, shouldn't Palestinians be encouraging more interactions between Palestinians and Israelis? Most Israelis have little to no idea about what Israel is doing to Palestinians. How can this change if Palestinians won't meet Israelis and tell them?
TGIA: check this out!
ReplyDeleteThe arrival of the Israel lobby adds geopolitical intrigue to a case that already read like a Ludlum thriller. And because it speaks to real and immediate consequences, it lends concreteness to a discussion that would have otherwise carried on in the abstract.
...and this:
ReplyDeleteFirst the breaking news: All members of the anti-government Hutaree group, who wanted to start a violent revolution against the government...have asked for public defenders! :-)
Now back to our main story: Who's a "terrorist"? Nobody who isn't a Muslim, at least according to the corporate media. First it was the Hutaree group, who you'll find described as "Christian warriors" (wouldn't that be "jihadis"?), "militia members", pretty much anything but "terrorists." Do a Google search for "Hutaree terrorism" and pretty much every link you'll see will be to a blog, or at most an op-ed like Eugene Robinson's in the Washington Post, but few if any to actual corporate media.
Mara, these militias are irrelevant. The local police will wipe the mat with them.
ReplyDeleteHey Rambu, if you are so gung ho about fighting in Afghanistan, why don't you enlist...and judging by how much you admire those killers in the ANA, you may even make a love connection...otherwise, you would be considered a hypocrite,or more specifically, a "chickenhawk".
ReplyDeleteIt's odd how you can quote Ghandi one day and spew this macho bullshit another day.
ReplyDeleteJoe, I was impressed by your thoughtful and nuanced comments on an earlier thread. So I won't respond in kind.
ReplyDeleteSee this:
http://www.ntm-a.com/news/1-categorynews/277-afghan-national-security-force-growth-is-key-to-continued-success?lang=
Let me repeat. 24,056 recruits tried to join the ANSF in a single month. Far more Afghans want to join the Afghan Army and Afghan Police than the Afghan Army and Afghan Police have the funding to train and equip.
The vast majority of Afghans hate the Taliban; and want to resist them. The Taliban are percieved to be a foreign import . . . and illegitimate.
Joe, I believe you like TGIA have a heart. I don't think you are an ugly American.
So I ask you to feel what the Afghans feel from the heart. We should give the Afghans the money and let them fight for their freedom from the Al Qaeda Taliban invasion.
It is outrageous that the US congress is stingy in giving the Afghans money.
The truth is that the Afghans are fighting the mortal enemies of America, Canada, Europe, Russia, China, India, Iran, the 5 stan republics, Turkey, Thailand, and Indonesia.
This is why 46 countries have sent their soldiers to stand shoulder to shoulder with the Afghan Army and Afghan Police; to assist with their training, equipping and advising. Many other contries have sent troops to Afghanistan bilaterally and not through ISAF.
I don't think Afghans want Americans to fight for them; but to train, equip and fund their own army. Help them Joe.
The Afghans need $300 billion in grants from the world over 20 years. The ANSF (Afghan Natioanal Security Forces) need $10 billion a year. [Some in the US military think they need $11 billion a year.] The Afghans need $5 billion a year to pay for their education, health, and infrastructure.
By contrast, total Afghan revenue is only $0.6 billion a year. In other words, only 4% of expenditure. [The Taliban has several times the revenue of the Afghan government; much of it from you know who Joe. You see, Joe, we can't talk about that for fear of being called sectarian and racist.]
I want the US congress to give Afghans money. Other countries too.
Joe, did you notice that the Indonesiasn volunteered to help the Afghan out? They are offering to train the Afghan Police. The same Afghan Police the the idotic moronic incredibly stupid Cheney and Rumsfeld blocked the US military from training.
ReplyDeleteThe offer was made during the London conference earlier this year; and made again during Obama's visit.
India is thought to have offered to train the Afghan Police (and my guess is the Afghan Army although this is less clear) earlier this year. Apparently, this offere was rejected because of "concerns" from our beloved sectarian Gulf State "brothers" and Pakistan.
The Taliban might have been responsible for the terrorist attack on Russia a few days ago. Russia has offered to help the Afghans; but the ANA and Afghan government is reluctant to publicly accept their offer.
To be fair to the topic of this thread:
ReplyDeleteOpium is an illegal drug, but Afghanistan's poppy crop is still grounded in networks of social trust that tie people together at each step in the chain of production. Crop loans are necessary for planting, labor exchange for harvesting, stability for marketing, and security for shipment. So dominant and problematic is the opium economy in Afghanistan today that a question Washington has avoided for the past nine years must be asked: Can anyone pacify a full-blown narco-state?
The answer to this critical question lies in the history of the three Afghan wars in which Washington has been involved over the past 30 years -- the CIA covert warfare of the 1980s, the civil war of the 1990s (fueled at its start by $900 million in CIA funding), and since 2001, the U.S. invasion, occupation, and counterinsurgency campaigns. In each of these conflicts, Washington has tolerated drug trafficking by its Afghan allies as the price of military success -- a policy of benign neglect that has helped make Afghanistan today the world's number one narco-state.
How are you, sir? Still very busy with your new responsibilitites?
ReplyDelete<span>Why can't we just purchase the crops for pharmaceuticals? We buy from India and Turkey, why not Afghanistan?</span>
<span>I agree, anan. Something similar happened to some Egyptian journalists, too. What short sighted stupidity and read some of the language: The reporters are asked to "repent".</span>
ReplyDeleteGood lord, its really almost hopeless with that kind of mentality.
After eliminating the ANA and NDS, the syndicate plans to consolidate their control over Afghanistan and use it as a base to launch terrorist attacks on Pakistan, Iran, Russia, other former Soviet Republics, China, India, Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, Australia, Europe, the Philippines, America, Canada, Iraq, Somalia, Turkey and Yemen; to throw everyone off balance and hopefully turn everyone against each other. [Manipulate Russians, Indians, and Iranians, to believe that America is behind the terrorist attacks against them; manipulate America to believe that Iran is behind the terrorist attacks on America; etc.] The syndicate plans to take over large parts of Pakistan; eventually the whole country. Defeat India in Kashmir. Make Iran burn. Bring down the Central Asian governments (Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kirgizstan, Turkmenistan, Kazakistan), reignite Dagastan and Chechnya; and inflame Xinjiang.
ReplyDeleteGive the Afghans the money, weapons, training and advisors; and they will defeat the syndicate. TGIA, we need to trust the Afghans.
<span>Joe, I was impressed by your thoughtful and nuanced comments on an earlier thread. So I won't respond in kind.
ReplyDelete</span>
Anan:
Respond anyway you want. I have a strong opinion about people like you who stay here in safety and want kids just out of high school to risk life and limb in some pointless war half a world away. If you feel so strongly about which faction comes out on top in Afghanistan, why don't you go over and volunteer with them and leave the rest of us out of it? Personally, I don't care. Don't get me wrong, I want what's best for the people of Afghanistan. I want them to live in peace and the women to be able to drive and everything else, but the last thing those people need is another armed faction fighting there-and that's what the US military is. And it's really asking too much of our young people to go over there and get involved in all that mess. But like I said before, you, by all means, should jump on the next plane to Afghanistan and find some outfit to fight with.
...And if you have trouble summonning up the courage, you can use Daniel Elsberg as an example. He took a huge risk when he released the Pentagon Papers and helped shorten the Viet Nam War. He probably saved more lives than Oscar Schindler. I consider him a real hero and a real patriot.
ReplyDeleteThanks Mara.. I've heard of this story before but I didn't read this article yet. The reason, I gathered, is that if the Somali war criminal is indicted the door will be open for the indiction of Israeli war criminals..The lobby doesn't like the idea.
ReplyDeleteJoe
ReplyDeleteI doubt anan knows who Daniel Ellsberg is..He jumps in the pool of the discussion with his shoes and clothes on.. An embarrassment really.<span><span></span> </span>
What amuses me is that everyone seems to know what's good for the Palestinians without asking them what they think...Because Palestinians are like babies. They can't understand thing, we need to show them the way..
ReplyDelete<span><span>What a stupid uninformed imbicile<span>.</span> </span><span><span>How well would Daniel Ellsberg stack up against one of the lions in the Afghan National Army (ANA) Commando</span>
ReplyDelete--------------------------
I vote this as the stupidest comment in the history of commentery, ever, not only in the blogosphere..</span></span>
Oh baloney, Tgia. If you can comment on what the U.S. or anyone else does then what the Palestinians do is fair game, too. You are a great proponent of "reason". Does punishing journalists for doing their jobs sound reasonable ? Should the Palestinian journalists be branded as collaborators? Should they repent?
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me that you are the one seeing them as babies. By their victimhood, does that make them immune from criticism? Why can't those journalists do their jobs like every other journalist in the world?
<span>"If Daniel Ellsberg chooses to personally lead his beloved Al Qaeda," </span>
ReplyDelete--------------------
Ellesberg loves al Qaeda? If you were anyone of significance he'd sue you for defamation and win hands down.
Because of something called BDS which is an initiative taken by the Palestinians themselves and who are asking everyone who cares ti listen to implement it.. There's obviously a disregard for this boycott from those who thought they could sit down and cozy with the likes of the IDF military. If it makes the majority of the Palestinians angry, I share that view becausae I too here advcate the BDS.
ReplyDeleteAs for that Egyptian journalist dumbass I can't even find the right words to describe his despicable ways. The Egyptian gov't attitude in this conflict is a cause of shame and frustration to the majority of the Egyptian people.
ReplyDelete<span>"Does punishing journalists for doing their jobs sound reasonable ?" What journalists are those? You mean the type that you constantly espouse, the hegemony crew (praise by the hegemony hag)? You do not even know what journalism is, and live in a world of blissful propaganda - some people have no business making comments about journalism when they embrace twaddle regularly.
ReplyDelete</span>
<span><span>"Why can't we just purchase the crops for pharmaceuticals?" Because we are too busy making money off of the contraband substance, it is fattening the bank accounts of those in Washington after it is laundered in our "pristine" banks - it is the glue that holds together the house of financial cards. However, you do not know anything about that vza, because you do not want to know.
ReplyDelete</span></span>
Anan knows nothing about dick, he is the perfect village idiot - every web site has one or more.
ReplyDeleteAnan knows nothing about dick, he is the perfect village idiot - every web site has one or more.
ReplyDeleteAnan knows nothing about dick, he is the perfect village idiot - every web site has one or more.
ReplyDeleteAnan knows nothing about dick, he is the perfect village idiot - every web site has one or more.
ReplyDeleteAnan knows nothing about dick, he is the perfect village idiot - every web site has one or more.
ReplyDeleteAnan knows nothing about dick, he is the perfect village idiot - every web site has one or more.
ReplyDeleteAnan knows nothing about dick, he is the perfect village idiot - every web site has one or more.
ReplyDeleteAnan knows nothing about dick, he is the perfect village idiot - every web site has one or more.
ReplyDeleteAnan knows nothing about dick, he is the perfect village idiot - every web site has one or more.
ReplyDeleteAnan knows nothing about dick, he is the perfect village idiot - every web site has one or more.
ReplyDeleteAnan knows nothing about dick, he is the perfect village idiot - every web site has one or more.
ReplyDeleteAnan knows nothing about dick, he is the perfect village idiot - every web site has one or more.
ReplyDeleteAnan knows nothing about dick, he is the perfect village idiot - every web site has one or more.
ReplyDeleteAnan knows nothing about dick, he is the perfect village idiot - every web site has one or more.
ReplyDeleteAnan knows nothing about dick, he is the perfect village idiot - every web site has one or more.
ReplyDeleteAnan knows nothing about dick, he is the perfect village idiot - every web site has one or more.
ReplyDeleteAnan knows nothing about dick, he is the perfect village idiot - every web site has one or more.
ReplyDeleteAnan knows nothing about dick, he is the perfect village idiot - every web site has one or more.
ReplyDeleteAnan knows nothing about dick, he is the perfect village idiot - every web site has one or more.
ReplyDeleteAnan knows nothing about dick, he is the perfect village idiot - every web site has one or more.
ReplyDeleteAnan knows nothing about dick, he is the perfect village idiot - every web site has one or more.
ReplyDeleteAnan knows nothing about dick, he is the perfect village idiot - every web site has one or more.
ReplyDeleteAnan knows nothing about dick, he is the perfect village idiot - every web site has one or more.
ReplyDeleteAnan knows nothing about dick, he is the perfect village idiot - every web site has one or more.
ReplyDeleteNo wonder Anan ass finds Abu Toameh to be a "prominent Palestinian author"!
ReplyDeleteFrom Wikipedia:
"Abu Toameh is part of the Speakers Bureau for the Hasbara Fellowships, a pro-Israel advocacy group spearheaded by Aish International.<sup></sup><span>[</span>3<span>]</span>
Oh yeah! What's there not to like?
Now, now v...... as Tgia often tells anand...where's your link, your proof? Oh never mind. It will just be a youtube something or other or an International A.N.S.W.E.R. talking point.
ReplyDeleteRepent, v!
<span><span>"Does punishing journalists for doing their jobs sound reasonable?" What journalists are those? </span></span>
ReplyDeleteDid you read the article, v or just stop by to make one of your nasty comments?
"The hasbara fellowship of which Abu Toameh is a member:
ReplyDeleteHasbara Fellowships is an organization that brings students to Israel and trains them to be "effective pro-Israel activists on their campuses". Based in New York, it was started in 2001 by Aish HaTorah in conjunction with the Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The organization claims to have trained over 1,000 students on over 220 US campuses, and is expanding into Canada.
Students in the program have the opportunity to meet high-level Israeli officials. A sample itinerary given by the organization includes meetings in Jerusalem with the foreign press advisor to the Prime Minister of Israel, the mayor of an Israeli city, a member of the Knesset, and the foreign minister of Israel. "
Wikipedia
Anan is a mystery of nature..who can explain anan without using at least once the word retarded?
ReplyDeleteI had a comment that has gone missing!
ReplyDeleteAnyway, it went something like this:
What about all the Palestinians who work for Israelis? What about all the Palestinians who buy products made in Israel?
What about the Fatah organization's deals with Israel under the table?
Leave the journalists alone. Give them some credit for professionalism and let them do their jobs.
Just that language "repent" shows they are not ready for prime time. If these syndicates go through with this, the news agencies of the world should have nothing to do with the Palestinian organizations involved with this travesty.
The article is written by Abu Toameh. I don't trust anything a guy who's a member of the hasbara fellowship (check it out) to say anything objective about what exactly took place.. I don't even need to read the article. I refuse to read this sell out of a traitor and a collaborator..
ReplyDeleteThe hasbara fellowship:
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasbara_Fellowships
<span>What about all the Palestinians who work for Israelis?</span>
ReplyDelete-----------------------
We all know it isn't right and it's a very painful issue, but people need to earn a living and feed their families. No need to rub in vza.
Cont. (The hasbara fellowships: Abu Toameh group)
ReplyDelete"Activists trained by Hasbara Fellowships have been involved in several notable campus demonstrations. In 2002, Hasbara Fellowships organized a rally at the National Student Palestinian Conference at the University of Michigan. [4] In 2007, Hasbara Fellowships members at Brandeis University protested against former US President Jimmy Carter's book, "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid" [5]
In 2007, Hasbara Fellowships called for volunteers to counter what it described as a "dangerous trend" of Wikipedia entries portraying Israel in a "negative light". Interested readers were encouraged to consider "joining a team of Wikipedians to make sure Israel is presented fairly and accurately".<sup></sup><span>"</span><span></span>
Anan brings me shit from Totten's blog and thinks we're too dumb to discover his evil ways!
ReplyDelete"I doubt anan knows who Daniel Ellsberg is ..."
ReplyDeleteA safe bet, Joe. I echo your Ellsberg appraisal. I'm sure vza will let us know if he's a dirty red.
I wait in vain for a sight of the fabled Haqqani posting.
And Palestinian journalists are not people and do not have to feed their families?
ReplyDelete<span> "I'm sure vza will let us know if he's a dirty red". </span>
ReplyDeleteOh no, you will definitely be the first I let know. So far I am only getting glimpses of green, though!
Jemmy:
ReplyDeleteDid you notice anan never answers when I ask how he reconciles his enthustiastic endorsement of military force with his stated belief in Ghandi's teachings?
<span><span><span>And Palestinian journalists are not people and do not have to feed their families?</span>
ReplyDelete----------------
C'mon vza, you know it's not the same thing. Hardship may push those who, on a construction site, do menial, unskilled jobs to feed their families,( though damaging in the end to their own interest as people), is not the same as meeting and cozying with the IDF military.
Again I'll stress the point that Abu Toameh writer of the article is not just any journalist here and if you ignore his whereabouts check him out. He's a clearly an enemy to his people..He's a hired gun. Another one you might say.
</span></span>
I do not know anything about Abu Tomeh. I am not up on who is acceptable and who is not according to the movement orthodoxy. I just can't get into that kind of rigidity. I do know that I also read the news story about the journalists at the Ma'an web site.
ReplyDeleteThis, however, fills in the story a bit more by giving some background into the "journalist" syndicates! Sounds like Fatah basically controls them, which leads me to believe the whole thing is just a political move and the journalists who went to Israel are simply being used as scapegoats. I suspect Fatah's war with Hamas is involved, too.
Oh well, All too sad for those who want to be true journalists. I am sure there are plenty of independent Palestinian journalists who are disgusted by all of it.
I am sorry Tgia, but it seems to me that defending the actions of organizations under the sway of Hamas or Fatah is not serving the best interests of the Palestinian people. Rather limiting, don't you think?
Note the dates involved in this article.
Tuesday, February 9, 2010 Palestinian journalists scoff at "farcical" Palestine Journalists Syndicate elections
Palestinian journalists scoff at "farcical elections" - Khalid Amayreh
Published yesterday 20:25 9 February 2010
www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=260216
Independent and professional journalists throughout Occupied Palestine are
scoffing at the "Palestine Journalists Syndicate" journalists' union
elections which took place on Saturday, 6 February, under the aegis of the
Fatah organization, describing the event as a "farce" and "fraud."
http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=47180
Fatah and Hamas political manoeuverings are of no interest to me. My concern is normalisation. An obscenity.
ReplyDeleteHe's Gandhi-lite. He loves all humankind, but counts Sunni Muslims and Europeans as sub-human."
ReplyDeleteSomewhat exhausted... I just finished a project I'd been trying to wrap up, and am now trying to size up the future of our institution given the massive budget cuts that are looming on the horizon...
ReplyDeleteOur system is in the process of budget cutting, too. 300 teachers are losing their positions...Programs have been cut...Uncertain days ahead.
ReplyDelete