BY JOHN J. MEARSHEIMER
The real tragedy of Vietnam is not that the United States lost, but that it became involved in the first place. It pains me to say this as someone who served in the American military from 1965 to 1975, but the anti-war movement was right: It did not matter to U.S. security whether North Vietnam conquered the south and unified that country under communist rule. More than 58,000 American soldiers and more than 2 million Vietnamese died in an unnecessary and foolish war.
I would point out that 200,000 NVA swithed over the South Vietnam's side. By contrast few in South Vietnam's army switched to North Vietnam's side.
ReplyDeleteIf an ungrateful America didn't stab the south vietnamese in the back when they were downand betray them; I think the South Vietnamese would have won.
"UNgrateful" america? Stab them in the back???!!!! WHAT THE 'F' are you talking about? You dont know shit. Ive been to Vietnam. Its a third world shithole.
ReplyDeleteTgia looks for this stuff to make the case the USA should pull out of iraq and afghan. Doesnt bother me. Not even BO would do something so stupid or cowardly.
Flemming, there are millions of Vietnamese Americans. Talk to them and ask them to tell you the truth.
ReplyDeleteThe ARVN could have defended South Vietnam but the US congress cut off funding for it. By contrast the North Vietnamese were funded by China and the Soviet Union.
America made written pledges to defend South Vietnam if it were invaded. This was South Vietnam's condition for signing the Kissinger "peace agreement." America broke her word. In 1975, America laughed at the South Vietnamese, saying some permutation of:
<span style="text-decoration: underline;">"You complete imbicilic fools. You believed us? How stupid could you be. What morons. So long loosers. Don't expect any money or other help from us."</span>
The greatest mistake South Vietnamese made was believing a lying cheat like America. As the malevelant Kissinger said, it is more dangerous to be America's friend than enemy. The South Vietnamese found out this truth too late.
If the South Vietnamese had known about America's double dealing treacherous nature earlier, they could have made alliances with other countries to protect themselves. They could have offered China permanent bases (naval and air) in return for China's support. China is far more reliable and less treasonous than America.
<span><span>Tgia looks for this stuff to make the case the USA should pull out of iraq and afghan.</span>
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Ha ha ha
Mildly funny I should add..I read 'Foreign Policy' for Walt and Mearsheimar..I'm curious to see their take on such issues..If you see this as "looking for this stuff" you're mistaken but it could be about any other conflict..Maybe I should I should follow your example and don't read altogether because I might learn something!</span>
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Pathetic, robotic and vaguely entertaining fleming..
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Obama should do what Kennedy should have done: Declare victory and haul ass. If he can pull that off, then we can get out of there and cut our losses. Period. End of Story.
ReplyDelete<span style="color: #808080;">The greatest mistake South Vietnamese made was believing a lying cheat like America</span>
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<span style="color: #808080;">Yea, sure, you sound like a true blue american anan...lol</span>
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<span style="color: #808080;">You can spew that garbage all you want. We spent thousands of lives and billions of dollars on a country that never got its shit together, and still hasnt. Aint our goddamn fault one bit. Same is true with Afghan and Paki. We will only put up with some much deception, incompetence and backwardness for so long. Then its sianara pal, you are now on your own. </span>
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<span style="color: #808080;">Tell me anan, how many foreign troops have died defending the american way of life in the past 100 years? You know, died on american soil. </span>
More than 50 million people died in WWII. If not for the sacrifice of many others around the world, war would have come to America's doors.
ReplyDeleteMaybe you should thank the British Indian Army, Chinese Army, Vietnamese resistance (remember that Ho Chi Minh was a CIA agent), Philipino resistance, British, Canadians, Australians, Serbs, Brazil and all the rest who helped defeat Hitler and Tojo.
Don't forget that Brazil joined the good guys in 1942 when the outcome of WWII was uncertain. They joined in the liberation of Italy in 1943. How many Americans thanked them? I say this self critically as an American.
Don't forget how Russia helped persuade the UK, France and Spain not to support the Confederacy against the North.
Nor forget how French, Spanish, Dutch, Mysure and Maratha blood and treasure freed America from British occupation.
Obama should ask Congress to pass $250 billion in military and economic grants to Pakistan and Afghanistan over the next 20 years. Obama should travel to Beijing, New Delhi, Tokyo, Seoul, Berlin, Moscow, Paris, Brussels, Tehran, and the other great powers and insist that they do the same.
ReplyDeleteObama should commit America over the long haul to train, equip, fund and mentor the ANSF and Pakistani security forces and insist that other countries do the same.
The Takfiris threaten all homo sapiens in every country . . . they need to be stopped for the sake of us all.
See this clip of a Pakistani suicide bomber supporting suicide attacks that kill Pakistani children because they are "not innocent." It is in Urdu (which maybe Molly can understand pieces of), and sent to me by a Pakistani friend:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/EpicIndia.jpg
Please don't abondon the good people of Afghanistan and Pakistan to these animals. Please don't let the Takfiri use WMDs against China, Moscow, Bombay, Los Angeles, Sweden, Jakartha, or some other country. Help the locals stop the crazies now.
The good people of Afghanistan and Pakistan are going to have to sort out their own issues without the help(or interference, depending on your point of view) of the US, like they did for the first 5000 years of their existence. If the thought of this pains your conscience, just remember that one way to ensure that a regional conflict will go on forever is to have the US step in as a peacemaker. Indeed, calling the US in to stop a war is like calling Lindsay Lohan in to stop a party because people are snorting coke.
ReplyDeleteThe truth of the matter is that the USA had no damn business going to VietNam, just like it has no damn business being in Afghanistan or Iraq. We take take the spare WMD and shove them up anan's and flemings ass. That way nothing is wasted.
ReplyDeleteV, the Afghans have asked for international and UN assistance. More than 50 countries have sent military forces to Afghanistan at the request of the Afghan government and the unanimous request of the UN Security Council.
ReplyDeleteYou are free to believe that the world shouldn't help the Afghans. But who gave you the right to order Afghans not to ask for international help?
In any case, Afghanistan is facing external enemies. You can't expect Afghanistan to fight tens of thousands of foreign extremists backed by billions of dollars in foreign grants on their own?
Even today, a typical Taliban soldier makes far more than a typical Afghan Army or Police officer. How can the Afghans fight this on their own?
By the way, Russia has repeatedly offered training and equipping for the ANSF. The Afghans have only partially accepted Russian offers of help. Afghanistan has the choice to do this with respect to other countries.
V, why don't you directly lobby the members of the Afghan parliament and ask them to not request help from countries you don't like. That would at least be something useful.
Joe, you should read some history.
ReplyDeleteAfghanistan and Pakistan have almost never been independent in 6 thousand years of history in anything approaching their current borders.
Generally, Afghanistan and Pakistan have been part of large regional/international confederacies (or as V would call them large international/regional empires) over the last several thousand years.
Afghans and Pakistanis have never been fully "independent" as you understand the term and have never fully solved their problems on their own. They have always been deeply interdependent with many other countries.
The Afghans overwhelmingly don't want to left on their own. The Afghans fear that they would be mass murdered and abused by their neighbors (especially pakistan and the Gulf Arabs) indefinitely, as happened to them 1996-2001. The large majority of Afghans still see the Taliban as an external occupation force (of Pakistanis, Arabs, Uzbechs, Chechans, Uighars etc.)
Also please remember that Afghanistan only has $600 million in annual tax revenue versus over $6,000 million in annual steady state expenditure. If the international community pulls out, the vast majority of Afghan schools, hospitals, colleges, medical clinics, construction, and social services would shut down overnight. This is the nightmare the Afghans fear.
Pakistanis are closer to your perspective Joe. But consider that Pakistan has nuclear weapons. If they are stolen, there is a high likelyhood that they would be used agianst:
1) Pakistani city (especially in a Shia area)
2) Indian city
3) Shiite/Iranian city
4) Russian city
5) European city
6) North American city
7) Chinese city.
Can you imagine the consequences if this happened? Pakistan's and Saudi Arabia's security establishments created Takfiri wackos and unleashed them around the world, especially to:
1) defeat India
2) defeat Russia/USSR/communists
3) defeat Shiites (in Pakistan, India, Afghanistan, Persia and Iraq)
4) defeat the Europeans
5) defeat the North Americans
6) defeat the Australians
7) support Jihad in Thailand, Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Iraq and many other countries.
Now the frankensteins they created have come home and are mass murdering Pakistanis in the tens of thousands. If the crazies win and overpower Pakistan, the whole world is doomed.
Also note, I have yet to see a single public opinion poll where Pakistanis were not demanding large amounts of additional foreign aid. If Pakistan wants tens of billions in foreign aid (and they clearly do) than that aid has to be conditioned on difficult Pakistani reforms. Pakistan can't use the money to support Takfiri crazies that attack other countries.
I say this self critically as an American.
ReplyDeleteHAHAHHAHAHA You are about as american as babaganoush!
"The greatest mistake South Vietnamese made was believing a lying cheat like America. As the malevelant Kissinger said, it is more dangerous to be America's friend than enemy. The South Vietnamese found out this truth too late.
ReplyDeleteIf the South Vietnamese had known about America's double dealing treacherous nature earlier, they could have made alliances with other countries to protect themselves"
Sure, tons of other countries were lining up to send their young men to die in the jungles of southeast asia. Sure anan. NAME ONE.
Anan, you speak like a trueblue Paki. So clear. So obvious. SO completely UNamerican.
Gee fleming..Put your nic. Maybe we're stupid but not THAT stupid!
ReplyDelete<span>SO completely UNamerican.</span>
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And when v or joe blast their country's policies are they "unAmerican too or is it only anan because he's brown? Gee, why am I asaking..Of course!!
Above was me....proudly AMERICAN.
ReplyDeleteTo clarify: V and Joe are incredibly UNamerican.
ReplyDeleteHappy? Im guessing not. Im guessing never. HAHAHAAHA
Un American, American or Guatemaltec it makes no difference to me. They're brothers..and THAT makes me happy..
ReplyDeleteV hates america. I think he's made that quite clear. He has never said anything positive about the US. He makes terrible accusations toward our founding fathers, as if the entire basis on which this country was founded is criminal. Hating America "for which it stands" qualifies as UMamerican.
ReplyDeleteJoe loathes capitalism. Again,highly UNamerican.
Dont despair tgia. Im sure you willl be able to conjure up more "reasons" to label me racist. lol