Study of a comprehensive database gives a surprising answer ----------------------- Surprising to whom? The illiterate folk who already have all sorts of preconceived ideas and prejudices about people and their cultures. Any one curious enough to engage a conversation with a Palestinian would have understood that religion was a mere frame to show case the complex emotions of desperation, humiliation and revolt against oppression and injustice..
<span>Study of a comprehensive database gives a surprising answer ----------------------- Surprising to whom? To the illiterate folk who already have all sorts of preconceived ideas and prejudices about people and their cultures. Any one curious enough to engage a conversation with a Palestinian would have understood that religion was a mere frame to showcase the simple emotions of desperation, humiliation and revolt against oppression and injustice..</span>
<span><span>Study of a comprehensive database gives a surprising answer ----------------------- Surprising to whom? To the illiterate folk who already have all sorts of preconceived ideas and prejudices about people and their cultures. Any one curious enough to engage a conversation with a Palestinian would have understood that religion was a mere frame to showcase the simple emotions of desperation, humiliation and revolt against oppression, dispossession and injustice..</span></span>
"Without understanding these motivations and addressing them, it would appear the governments or organizations that seek to end suicide bombings are likely to be disappointed."
It is not that governments do not know, it is that they chose to use it as a point of vilification. Therefore, even though they know that it is an act of retaliation or whatever else - they chose to cite other reasons. Like the Israelis like to tie it to racial hatred, or relgious hatred, or to some non-historical factoid like an ancient animosity, etc.
This would be like saying, in the Israeli case in comparison to the early US indigenous population of the now USA - "they hated us because they did not like our white skin - they hated our culture - they hated our religion." If someone were to do this in an academic situation, use these explanations about early America, they would be laughed out of the classroom.
One other point added to the above, what this deflection does (calling it racial hatred, religious fanaticism, etc.) is take the attention AWAY from the atrocious and murderous acts that cause the retaliation. "Heaven forbid" that it what has been done to the suicide bomber by the people covering it up with these stupid explanations be exposed. So, it is a dual purpose.
<span style="">I do understand the motivation, and if I were in the same situation, I would definitely wrap myself up with explosives and make sure that I would kill as many as possible. Israel is a Spartan country; a military state. Everybody is a soldier. I am not a blood-thirsty person, but that is how it is in Israel.</span> <span style=""> </span> <span style="">Palestinians are not the haters, not the foreign graft to the body of the occupied land, but indigenous nation who lived there for thousands of years.</span> <span style=""> </span> <span style="">Religion, especially Islam is a peaceful religion contrary to the oral and written belief of the Jews which is full of atrocities committed against other nations. And while I am at it, do not forget the oral part, I.e. the Talmud which is full of hatred towards any no-Jews whom they call "Goyim", a derogatory term meaning "less than animals".</span> <span style=""> </span> <span style="">The thing about Islam is - It is not weaklings religions. Muslims have the choice not to turn the other cheek. But if they do, then it will be a sublime act in God's eyes.</span> <span style=""> </span> <span style="">Therefore, we should consider religion as a potential factor. Why oversight it, when one is fighting for a just cause?</span>
Suicide bombers who attack Israel are different from bombers who attack Algerians, Russians, Chinese, Indians, Afghans, Iraqis, Americans, Indonesians, Philipino, Thais etc.? Interesting.
I think that most Palestinians strongly oppose all terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians because Palestinians are a good and just people; and that the terrorist groups do it to help people like Lieberman win Israeli elections and to encourage fighting between Israelis and Palestinians. I think that many of the suicide bombers are secretly anti Palestinian.
I haven't read the Yales study yet, but I am sick of reading Likud propoganda (including at places such as Michael Totten) that Palestinians support suicide bombers against Israeli civilians. That kind of sick Likud information operation to defame and discredit good Palestinian civilians needs to stop.
Here's a paraphrase of Fanon's arguments from the preface to Wretched of the Earth:
"he will be killed: it is not just that he accepts the risk of it; he is certain of it. This walking dead man has lost his wife and his sons; <span style="text-decoration: underline;">he has seen so much agony he prefers victory to survival</span>; others will profit from the victory, not him; he is too weary. But this weariness of heart is the reason for his incredible courage. We find our humanity this side of death and despair; he finds it on the other side of torture and death."
i'm not condoning, I support the BDS movement, but explaining "motivations."
Here's the solution to the mystery of suicide bombers, if one is needed: It's a weapon delivery system-one from a very limited arsenal available to a captive population...and it is actually used relatively sparingly, considering how non lethal protests are either crushed or ignored.
Also, dying for a cause or a country is not unique to Palestine or Islam-after all, every US soldier who enlists, especially during wartime, is a potential suicide bomber(he's taking a chance he will be killed in action.).
Joe you misunderstand. We are not discussing suicide attackers who attack the IDF, Hamas' fighters, the Palestinian Authority National Security Forces, or other uniformed militaries. That is another matter altogether.
We are discussing suicide bombers attacking civilian population centers with the objective of killing as many civilians as possible. No doubt the large majority of Palestinians oppose attacks against civilians, including Israeli civilians. Remember that many Palestinian Israeli citizens are killed by suicide bombers too. Palestinians are a good people and distinguish between attacks against Israeli civilians (which they strongly oppose) and attacks against IDF (which many support.)
I strongly disagree with you <span style="cursor: pointer;">http://thenakedtruthinaconfusedworld.blogspot.com.</span> <img src="http://s.js-kit.com/images/icon10-external-url.png"/> Lieberman claims that Palestinian civilians back attacks against Israeli civilians. Please don't give him any more ammunition to misuse.
anan Commenting, with AUTHORITY, on something you didn't read, an interesting study which occasionally could teach you something tangible about the motivations of suicide bombers, is rude in the extreme..What you're saying here has NOTHING to do do with the contents and the conclusions. It would never cross my mind to vist a blog to post comments without reading the material. It's a strong mark of disrespect to the bloggers and to other commentors.
anan Fine,you don't want to click on the link . I'll bring some important points from the study to you here.
On October 4, 2003, 29 year old Palestinian lawyer Hanadi Jaradat exploded her suicide belt in the Maxim restaurant in Haifa killing 20 people and wounding many more. According to her family, her suicide mission was in revenge for the killing of her brother and her fiancé by the Israeli security forces and in revenge for all the crimes Israel had perpetrated in the West Bank by killing Palestinians and expropriating their lands. The main motive for many suicide bombings in Israel is revenge for acts committed by Israelis.
The evidence from the database largely discredits the common wisdom that the personality of suicide bombers and their religion are the principal cause. It shows that though religion can play a vital role in recruiting and motivating potential future suicide bombers, the driving force is not religion but a cocktail of motivations including politics, humiliation, revenge, retaliation and altruism. The configuration of these motivations is related to the specific circumstances of the political conflict behind the rise of suicide attacks in different countries <div> </div>
redemption or honor; using martyrdom to effect the survival of the community; refusing to accept subjugation; seeking revenge for personal and collective humiliation
And Finally . Strategies for eliminating or at least addressing collective grievances in concrete and effective ways would have a significant, and, in many cases, immediate impact on alleviating the conditions that nurture the subcultures of suicide bombings. Support for suicide bombing attacks is unlikely to diminish without tangible progress in achieving at least some of the fundamental goals that suicide bombers and those sponsoring and supporting them share.
VAA, I didn't want to read that, in case I read something I didn't like. I couldn't disagree with that line of thought more. The lawyer should have attacked the IDF, not civilians. 23% of all Israeli citizens are Palestinian muslims (or atheists.)
See the June global Pew research survey. In every muslim and nonmuslim country on earth; the vast majority of people strongly oppose all terrorist attacks against all civilians.
Even in Pakistan, more than 75% feel this way. The only country in the world that stood out was Palestine. In every other muslim country the vast majority strongly opposes all terrorism against all civilians.
All terrorism is Halal for all religious orthodox muslims. It is anti Islamic and offends and defames all muslims. To kill one innocent is like killing all humanity.
I would like to believe that Likud manipulated the Pew research result and that in reality the Palestinians like all other muslims strongly oppose all terrorism.
<span>VAA, I didn't want to read that, in case I read something I didn't like.</span> ------------ I see. You only read things you like...That's the way to go to keep informed! Ha ha!
<span><span>VAA, I didn't want to read that, in case I read something I didn't like.</span> ------------ The way to go. Why would you don't want your convictions to be challenged? </span>
<span><span><span>VAA, I didn't want to read that, in case I read something I didn't like.</span> ------------ That's it. No better way to stay informed. </span></span>
I didn't want to read that anan -------- You're a TANBAL (Imbecile) anan , you don't want to read it, that's fine . But these exerts are from the study.It happened ,it's reality .It's not a line of thought,,,and you're in no position to refute the study or it's conclusion.This is what the author said it's happened , and "you don't like this line of thought" !!!!!!!!!!! . Are you stoned ?
All terrorism is Halal for all religious orthodox Muslims anan ----- Apparently this idea lives only in your small head.You're a racist , Fascist ,religious freak , and stupid beyond believe. <div>GO AND FUCK YOURSELF </div>
<span>All terrorism is Halal for all religious orthodox muslims.</span> ----------- Is it not 'haram' you wanted to say? Because halal means the opposite (authorised).
Thanks for the correction TGIA. It is not normal to become a suicide bomber and kill random civilians, no matter what the greviance. It makes no sense.
One to two million people died in weeks during the 1947 partition. How many Hindu or Sikh suicide bombers attacked muslims?
And your inferred answer is: Islam must be the cause, right!! Again read the Yale report!! BTW, the first suicide bombers were Tamul Tigers, followed by Iranians during the war Iraq/Iran. The Palestinians came in later.
The Tamil Tigers were hated by Indian Tamils before they were wiped out for their immoral activities.
Notice how there are almost no Zaidi, Shia, Ishmaili, Sufi, Bahai, Zorastrian, Shinto, Sikh, Hindu (excluding the despicable LTTE), Buddhist, Confuscian, Christian, Jewish suicide bombers.
Almost all of them (at least outside of Palestine) are Salafi extremists.
I am refering to suicide bombers targetting random civilians by the way; not fighters in wars. I don't have any data suggesting that Persian Shia were attacking Iraqi civilians in the 1980s.
You're still peddling the same point directly or indirectly that Islam is behind it all and you did not take into account the report of the people at Yale and its conclusions that it's not. You're obviously of a higher standard of rigor and knowledge. Why not sending them an email advising them of the correct line of thought..Don't forget to sign 'GOD' for more convicing measures..
Study of a comprehensive database gives a surprising answer
ReplyDelete-----------------------
Surprising to whom? The illiterate folk who already have all sorts of preconceived ideas and prejudices about people and their cultures. Any one curious enough to engage a conversation with a Palestinian would have understood that religion was a mere frame to show case the complex emotions of desperation, humiliation and revolt against oppression and injustice..
<span>Study of a comprehensive database gives a surprising answer
ReplyDelete-----------------------
Surprising to whom? To the illiterate folk who already have all sorts of preconceived ideas and prejudices about people and their cultures. Any one curious enough to engage a conversation with a Palestinian would have understood that religion was a mere frame to showcase the simple emotions of desperation, humiliation and revolt against oppression and injustice..</span>
<span><span>Study of a comprehensive database gives a surprising answer
ReplyDelete-----------------------
Surprising to whom? To the illiterate folk who already have all sorts of preconceived ideas and prejudices about people and their cultures. Any one curious enough to engage a conversation with a Palestinian would have understood that religion was a mere frame to showcase the simple emotions of desperation, humiliation and revolt against oppression, dispossession and injustice..</span></span>
"Without understanding these motivations and addressing them, it would appear the governments or organizations that seek to end suicide bombings are likely to be disappointed."
ReplyDeleteIt is not that governments do not know, it is that they chose to use it as a point of vilification. Therefore, even though they know that it is an act of retaliation or whatever else - they chose to cite other reasons. Like the Israelis like to tie it to racial hatred, or relgious hatred, or to some non-historical factoid like an ancient animosity, etc.
This would be like saying, in the Israeli case in comparison to the early US indigenous population of the now USA - "they hated us because they did not like our white skin - they hated our culture - they hated our religion." If someone were to do this in an academic situation, use these explanations about early America, they would be laughed out of the classroom.
One other point added to the above, what this deflection does (calling it racial hatred, religious fanaticism, etc.) is take the attention AWAY from the atrocious and murderous acts that cause the retaliation. "Heaven forbid" that it what has been done to the suicide bomber by the people covering it up with these stupid explanations be exposed. So, it is a dual purpose.
ReplyDelete<span style="">I do understand the motivation, and if I were in the same situation, I would definitely wrap myself up with explosives and make sure that I would kill as many as possible. Israel is a Spartan country; a military state. Everybody is a soldier. I am not a blood-thirsty person, but that is how it is in Israel.</span>
ReplyDelete<span style=""> </span>
<span style="">Palestinians are not the haters, not the foreign graft to the body of the occupied land, but indigenous nation who lived there for thousands of years.</span>
<span style=""> </span>
<span style="">Religion, especially Islam is a peaceful religion contrary to the oral and written belief of the Jews which is full of atrocities committed against other nations. And while I am at it, do not forget the oral part, I.e. the Talmud which is full of hatred towards any no-Jews whom they call "Goyim", a derogatory term meaning "less than animals".</span>
<span style=""> </span>
<span style="">The thing about Islam is - It is not weaklings religions. Muslims have the choice not to turn the other cheek. But if they do, then it will be a sublime act in God's eyes.</span>
<span style=""> </span>
<span style="">Therefore, we should consider religion as a potential factor. Why oversight it, when one is fighting for a just cause?</span>
TGIA, what motivated thousands of non Iraqi suicide bombers to mass murder Iraqis?
ReplyDeleteThe study is about Palestinian suicide bombers.
ReplyDelete<span>I think you missed the point. The study is about Palestinian suicide bombers in Israel.
ReplyDelete</span>
Suicide bombers who attack Israel are different from bombers who attack Algerians, Russians, Chinese, Indians, Afghans, Iraqis, Americans, Indonesians, Philipino, Thais etc.? Interesting.
ReplyDeleteI think that most Palestinians strongly oppose all terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians because Palestinians are a good and just people; and that the terrorist groups do it to help people like Lieberman win Israeli elections and to encourage fighting between Israelis and Palestinians. I think that many of the suicide bombers are secretly anti Palestinian.
I see that you don't buy the conclusions of the Yales study, if you read it that is!.
ReplyDeleteI haven't read the Yales study yet, but I am sick of reading Likud propoganda (including at places such as Michael Totten) that Palestinians support suicide bombers against Israeli civilians. That kind of sick Likud information operation to defame and discredit good Palestinian civilians needs to stop.
ReplyDelete<span style="">suicide bombers are secretly anti Palestinian. </span>anan
ReplyDelete------
shit .shit.shit.
Yes that is anand, triple SHIT
ReplyDeleteI will be out of town for the weekend guys, lots to do...I'll be back
what gives, v? (i can't stop using that expression). i mean why so busy. ;(
ReplyDeleteHere's a paraphrase of Fanon's arguments from the preface to Wretched of the Earth:
ReplyDelete"he will be killed: it is not just that he accepts the risk of it; he is certain of it. This walking dead man has lost his wife and his sons; <span style="text-decoration: underline;">he has seen so much agony he prefers victory to survival</span>; others will profit from the victory, not him; he is too weary. But this weariness of heart is the reason for his incredible courage. We find our humanity this side of death and despair; he finds it on the other side of torture and death."
i'm not condoning, I support the BDS movement, but explaining "motivations."
Here's the solution to the mystery of suicide bombers, if one is needed: It's a weapon delivery system-one from a very limited arsenal available to a captive population...and it is actually used relatively sparingly, considering how non lethal protests are either crushed or ignored.
ReplyDeleteAlso, dying for a cause or a country is not unique to Palestine or Islam-after all, every US soldier who enlists, especially during wartime, is a potential suicide bomber(he's taking a chance he will be killed in action.).
Joe you misunderstand. We are not discussing suicide attackers who attack the IDF, Hamas' fighters, the Palestinian Authority National Security Forces, or other uniformed militaries. That is another matter altogether.
ReplyDeleteWe are discussing suicide bombers attacking civilian population centers with the objective of killing as many civilians as possible. No doubt the large majority of Palestinians oppose attacks against civilians, including Israeli civilians. Remember that many Palestinian Israeli citizens are killed by suicide bombers too. Palestinians are a good people and distinguish between attacks against Israeli civilians (which they strongly oppose) and attacks against IDF (which many support.)
I strongly disagree with you <span style="cursor: pointer;">http://thenakedtruthinaconfusedworld.blogspot.com.</span>
ReplyDelete<img src="http://s.js-kit.com/images/icon10-external-url.png"/>
Lieberman claims that Palestinian civilians back attacks against Israeli civilians. Please don't give him any more ammunition to misuse.
anan
ReplyDeleteCommenting, with AUTHORITY, on something you didn't read, an interesting study which occasionally could teach you something tangible about the motivations of suicide bombers, is rude in the extreme..What you're saying here has NOTHING to do do with the contents and the conclusions.
It would never cross my mind to vist a blog to post comments without reading the material. It's a strong mark of disrespect to the bloggers and to other commentors.
anan
ReplyDeleteFine,you don't want to click on the link . I'll bring some important points from the study to you here.
On October 4, 2003, 29 year old Palestinian lawyer Hanadi Jaradat exploded her suicide belt in the Maxim restaurant in Haifa killing 20 people and wounding many more. According to her family, her suicide mission was in revenge for the killing of her brother and her fiancé by the Israeli security forces and in revenge for all the crimes Israel had perpetrated in the West Bank by killing Palestinians and expropriating their lands. The main motive for many suicide bombings in Israel is revenge for acts committed by Israelis.
The evidence from the database largely discredits the common wisdom that the personality of suicide bombers and their religion are the principal cause. It shows that though religion can play a vital role in recruiting and motivating potential future suicide bombers, the driving force is not religion but a cocktail of motivations including politics, humiliation, revenge, retaliation and altruism. The configuration of these motivations is related to the specific circumstances of the political conflict behind the rise of suicide attacks in different countries
ReplyDelete<div>
</div>
redemption or honor; using martyrdom to effect the survival of the community; refusing to accept subjugation; seeking revenge for personal and collective humiliation
ReplyDeleteAnd Finally .
ReplyDeleteStrategies for eliminating or at least addressing collective grievances in concrete and effective ways would have a significant, and, in many cases, immediate impact on alleviating the conditions that nurture the subcultures of suicide bombings. Support for suicide bombing attacks is unlikely to diminish without tangible progress in achieving at least some of the fundamental goals that suicide bombers and those sponsoring and supporting them share.
VAA, I didn't want to read that, in case I read something I didn't like. I couldn't disagree with that line of thought more. The lawyer should have attacked the IDF, not civilians. 23% of all Israeli citizens are Palestinian muslims (or atheists.)
ReplyDeleteSee the June global Pew research survey. In every muslim and nonmuslim country on earth; the vast majority of people strongly oppose all terrorist attacks against all civilians.
ReplyDeleteEven in Pakistan, more than 75% feel this way. The only country in the world that stood out was Palestine. In every other muslim country the vast majority strongly opposes all terrorism against all civilians.
All terrorism is Halal for all religious orthodox muslims. It is anti Islamic and offends and defames all muslims. To kill one innocent is like killing all humanity.
I would like to believe that Likud manipulated the Pew research result and that in reality the Palestinians like all other muslims strongly oppose all terrorism.
<span>VAA, I didn't want to read that, in case I read something I didn't like.</span>
ReplyDelete------------
I see. You only read things you like...That's the way to go to keep informed! Ha ha!
<span><span>VAA, I didn't want to read that, in case I read something I didn't like.</span>
ReplyDelete------------
The way to go. Why would you don't want your convictions to be challenged?
</span>
<span><span><span>VAA, I didn't want to read that, in case I read something I didn't like.</span>
ReplyDelete------------
That's it. No better way to stay informed.
</span></span>
I didn't want to read that anan
ReplyDelete--------
You're a TANBAL (Imbecile) anan , you don't want to read it, that's fine . But these exerts are from the study.It happened ,it's reality .It's not a line of thought,,,and you're in no position to refute the study or it's conclusion.This is what the author said it's happened , and "you don't like this line of thought" !!!!!!!!!!! . Are you stoned ?
All terrorism is Halal for all religious orthodox Muslims anan
ReplyDelete-----
Apparently this idea lives only in your small head.You're a racist , Fascist ,religious freak , and stupid beyond believe.
<div>GO AND FUCK YOURSELF </div>
<span>All terrorism is Halal for all religious orthodox muslims.</span>
ReplyDelete-----------
Is it not 'haram' you wanted to say? Because halal means the opposite (authorised).
Take it easy on the fellow. I think he's confusing halal with haram.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the correction TGIA. It is not normal to become a suicide bomber and kill random civilians, no matter what the greviance. It makes no sense.
ReplyDeleteOne to two million people died in weeks during the 1947 partition. How many Hindu or Sikh suicide bombers attacked muslims?
And your inferred answer is: Islam must be the cause, right!! Again read the Yale report!!
ReplyDeleteBTW, the first suicide bombers were Tamul Tigers, followed by Iranians during the war Iraq/Iran. The Palestinians came in later.
The Tamil Tigers were hated by Indian Tamils before they were wiped out for their immoral activities.
ReplyDeleteNotice how there are almost no Zaidi, Shia, Ishmaili, Sufi, Bahai, Zorastrian, Shinto, Sikh, Hindu (excluding the despicable LTTE), Buddhist, Confuscian, Christian, Jewish suicide bombers.
Almost all of them (at least outside of Palestine) are Salafi extremists.
I am refering to suicide bombers targetting random civilians by the way; not fighters in wars. I don't have any data suggesting that Persian Shia were attacking Iraqi civilians in the 1980s.
ReplyDeleteYou're still peddling the same point directly or indirectly that Islam is behind it all and you did not take into account the report of the people at Yale and its conclusions that it's not. You're obviously of a higher standard of rigor and knowledge. Why not sending them an email advising them of the correct line of thought..Don't forget to sign 'GOD' for more convicing measures..
ReplyDelete