AMSTERDAM — A Dutch university fired Islamic scholar Tariq Ramadan on Tuesday for hosting a show on Iran's state television, which the school said could be seen as endorsing the regime.
Ramadan — known as a reformist who condemns terrorism, seeks to modernize Shariah law and urges Muslims living in Europe to integrate — has recently been criticized in the Dutch press for allegedly voicing more conservative views for Muslim audiences than he does in the West.
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Ramadan, independently of what one thinks of his ideas, is a BRILLIANT mind. I saw him once debating De Villiers, a reactionary, right wing anti European Union politician and I was blown away by the acuity of his mind! I had had heard of him but never read him so I had no idea what he represented exactly..The poor thing who debated him, actually there were two of them, the presenter of the program wasn't all that neutral, were literally silenced and didn't have much of substance to add. They had this idea that they would corner him on radical Islam, and thus being an easy prey but found a very modern critical Islamic thinker who annihilated their arguments one by one...Very sharp...
It appears that these judgments grow more and more draconian as time goes on, writing the interest of these governments bold that they are up to no good for the region. Nothing really changes historically if you allow the same people into power, they will always try to extinguish any light so they can do their deeds in darkness.
ReplyDeleteHas Zelaya returned to Honduras yet? No?
ReplyDeleteAfter Ms. McHale, the Obama administration’s new under secretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs, gave her initial polite presentation about building bridges between America and the Muslim world, Mr. Abbasi thanked her politely for meeting with him. Then he told her that he hated her.
ReplyDelete“ ‘You should know that we hate all Americans,’ ” Ms. McHale said Mr. Abbasi told her. “ ‘From the bottom of our souls, we hate you.’ ”
Shocker. Not.
The US has two basic choices. Acquiesce and beg for forgiveness. Or continue to defend ourselves and our way of life. Guess which we will choose.
Do you have a link for this, fleming? Thanks.
ReplyDeleteHere:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/20/world/asia/20holbrooke.html
So tell me flaming idiot..You want to mobilise Americans to defend themselves agaist Mr. Abbassi who represents no one but himself?
And what does Tarek Ramaden has to do with the Abbassi dude, flaming ass? Do you have a minimum of intellectual curiosity to check who this scholar is and judge for yourself if the university was right in sacking him or not? You rather prefer to dig up some shit about some shitty journalist just to show you're right in your extreme views on this issue!!
ReplyDeleteFUCKTARD!!
<span>Fleming, who is Mr. Abbasi? Why should we 310 million Americans give a crap about what he thinks? I have never heard about him. Why should I care what he thinks?</span>
ReplyDeleteI have heard of Tariq Ramadan and read some of his writings, but don't know enough about him to comment about his situation. I know that Christopher Hitchens likes Tariq Ramadan which suggests to me that he is a sharp mind.
Would you like me to dig for some crazy, frenzied hate speech spewed on a daily basis on thousands of American blog sites all over the web talking about "sand niggers" and much more colorfull adjectives? Would that be considered what "real Americans" really think of the Arabs and as such they constitute a grave danger for their(Arabs) well being and safety? It would be a very easy job, I see it every day!!
ReplyDeleteFinally because you deserve no more elaboration. You like to see that you're "defending yourself" when so far in reality your country has been doing little less than wars of aggression on those people you pretend they hate you!!!
ReplyDeleteYou're revealing yourself in ways that shows the real despicable nutcase that you are.
Fleming knows that this is not true, he just likes to write vindictive tripe. Probably to get a rise out of us, I am beginning to think this is what he lives for on this site. Sad
ReplyDeleteTariq Ramadan is brilliant and articulate and very, very good with the chic academic lingo. He is also a chameleon. When all is said and done, however, he is an Islamist....a modern Islamist. He wrote the preface to a book of Sheikh al-Qaradwi's fatwas so he must approve. Read the fatwas.
ReplyDeleteMr. Abbasi is a a very popular investigative journalist in Pakistan. He is very much against corruption...which is good. Some of his detractors have accused him of being a bit too fond of the Taliban. But he hates us.... from the bottom of his soul. He seems to think he speaks for a whole lot of Pakistanis who also hate us.... from the bottom of their souls.
ReplyDeleteSure, and Noam Chomsky wrote a preface for David Irving, does that make Chomsky a Holocaust denier? No, just someone who believes in free speech
ReplyDeleteVZA, many Pakistanis hate Americans, Europeans, Jews, Afghans and Indians from the bottom of their souls.
ReplyDeleteRemember that the US embassy in Pakistan was burned down in 1979.
Porbably the only countries that at least a large minority of Pakistanis like are China and Saudi Arabia.
In the recent Pew public survey, 12% of Pakistanis had a positive view of Obama, compared with 18% who had a positive view of Osama Bin Laden.
Palestine is the only country on earth more anti American than Pakistan. Palestine is "A LOT" more anti American than Pakistan. It is mind boggling actually. Why is Palestine by a large order of magnitude the most anti American country on earth?
TGIA, much as it will hurt you to hear this, the viseral extent of anti Americanism among Palestinians, which is orders of magnitude greater than on any other country on earth, is completely inexcusable and inappropriate.
But this I can live with TGIA. What really offends me is how in 2009, 52% of Palestinians have a favorable view of Al Qaeda. Even the vast majority of Pakistanis hate them! No other country has even a large minority supporting Al Qaeda! Even Jordan is strongly anti Al Qaeda! And Jordan is 60% Palestinian.
How can Palestinians expect to win any international support with that kind of completely irrational bigoted attitude? This is completely and totaly immoral, ammoral and stupid.
Are Palestinians from the west bank and gaza racist? I don't get it. And TGIA, whether others openly admit this or not, this fuels anti Palestinian sentiment around the Ummah and the nonmuslim world. Palestinians cannot run away from this issue. They have to deal with it head on.
To be fair to Pakistanis, many other countries have irrational dislike of them too.
ReplyDeleteFor example, 91% of Afghans have an unfavorable view of Pakistan. Afghans blame Pakistanis for everything, often unfairly. The Pakistanis naturally hate the Afghans back (supported the Taliban and Al Qaeda against them until recently), and fear that there is a global conspiracy to destroy Pakistan. Many Pakistanis really believe that there is a conspiracy with Russia, Afghanistan, the Shia, Persians, India, America, Israel, naturally lead, organized and controlled by the Jews, to destroy Pakistan.
Anti Jewish hatred (not anti Israeli sentiment but old fashion Jew hating) is deeply rooted in Pakistan and tought in their schools and families to young children. Many decent Pakistanis are deeply embarrased and alarmed by this and are trying to address this. I hope they succeed. {40% of Pakistanis believe the "Jews" did 9/11.}
Oh, and be a more specific about the book you speak of, there are about 50 volumes from this author.
ReplyDeleteIf some Palestinians hate the Americans it's easy to understand why. The US has armed Israel with weapons that are decimating them, more than any other country on earth. They vetoed most if not all UN resolutions condemning Israel. Their support for Israel is in fact unconditional! The US while pretending to be neutral on the Israeli/ Palestinian conflict are actually doing exactly the opposite and backing Israel in 99.99% of the time. The other 0.01% they stay clear if ever in fact..The Palestinians are not stupid, they can read the game better than anybody else on the planet because for them it's a question of life and death. Now after this you still cannot understand why the Palestinians"hate the Americans" and frankly my dear, I'm not able to help you any further because I KNOW, you're already convinced and nothing can be done about it...!
ReplyDelete<span>When all is said and done, however, he is an Islamist....a modern Islamist.</span>
ReplyDelete------
So what? Is this a crime? Is this to put in the same basket as terrorist or extremist.. For millions of Muslims it's a culture, their culture, and as long as the consequencies of such belifs are not a danger to other countries, where'
s the problem. You can't possibly want millions of Muslims to just drop a way of life and espouse another just like that!
On Youtube, the other day, I see this exchange between two guys talking about an Arab woman : Yeah I'd do her alright( I'll spare you the exact words) but I'm not sure I can stand the smell!!!The other guy had a lot more to say in the same vein...This is very common if you didn't know!
ReplyDelete<span>On Youtube, the other day, I see this exchange between two guys talking about an Arab woman : Yeah I'd do her alright( I'll spare you the exact words) but I'm not sure I can stand the smell!!!The other guy had a lot more to say in the same vein...</span>
ReplyDelete<span>Nothing extraordinary here...It's is very common if you didn't know!</span>
Fleming as a character has discredited himself long time ago...Not as much for the views or the ideas as it is for the dishonest way he argues, twisting, caricaturing and putting words in others' mouths..
ReplyDeleteThe quote was from a NY Times article I just happened upon.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, TGIA is frothy with rage and hate toward...me! LOL
The fact is, americans can sense the rage and hate of muslims. It is palpable. And we will not be intimidated into behaving or doing certain thinjgs. Like abandoing Israel. In fact, if hate is directed our way, we will redirect it back to whence it came.
It seems muslims who hate us believe we are so desperate to be loved, or to have their approval, that we will do anything to get it. We are not so pathetic. Far from it.
I didnt twist anybody's words in the quote. I merely repeated words directly spoken by a prominent muslim. Dont like it, take up the issue with him.
Even Mike Huckabee, who recently argued against a Palestinian state in jerusalem, didnt talk about hate. He said what most americans believe: There is no place for a Palestinian state in the holy land. But he does support their right to have a state elsewhere.
<span style="color: #3b3c4f; "><span style="">An International call for <span>Moratorium</span> on corporal punishment, stoning and the death penalty in the Islamic World by Tariq Ramadan: </span><span style="color: #000000; font-family: Verdana; ">http://www.tariqramadan.com/spip.php?article264</span>
ReplyDelete</span>
tiga continues to delete my posts when he "doesnt approve". What a baby.
ReplyDeleteAs I said in a previously deleted post, the quote was from a NY Times article.
Regardless, we (the USA) will not be intimidated by those who hate us. You can certainly express sympathy for those who do. But none of it will change our behavior.
What vza is trying to do is simple, her only reference to the individual<span> Tariq Ramadan that she makes is this one preface to a book which is supposed to implicate him. She probably just has a tiny reference to the icky sticky wiki pedia of the</span><span> Sheikh, which has been Zionised in many places - have not been there, but I bet you that this is her paltry reference. As if Zionists do not make imprecatory statements about Arab's all day long, and even use imprecatory psalms in their services against them. For her it is a one way train to condemn them, but not any of the others who do the same thing, etc.
ReplyDelete</span>
"To be fair to the Pakistanis ..." So you do have a sense of humour.
ReplyDeleteAnd it's exacxtly this call for a moratorium which was the subject of the debate I was referring to...He was accused of condoning punishment and stoning because he didn''t call for a ban but just a moratorium..
ReplyDeleteActually I could understand that for vza the problem is that he's an Islamist and being a modern one does not change much . This at least is my understanding from her reply above but I could be wrong..
ReplyDeleteHere's a litle something from the comrades!
ReplyDeleteIn 1998 Ramadan wrote a foreword to a collection of fatwas by Yusuf al Qaradawi, published by the European Council of the Fatwa. According to this book, a husband, “has the right to forbid his wife to visit another woman, if he thinks this visit may cause a prejudice to his wife, his children or his marital life”, and a “woman should not take the initiative to talk to men she does not know”. A woman, “should not play with children who are dancing”. And the book goes on with themes like, “Should a Muslim woman use a credit card?” Or, “Should she cut her hair without her husband's authorization?” And this book declares abortion illegal.
When Ramadan is asked about this foreword and his “deep respect” for such a reactionary theologian he has an answer which is typical of what is called in French “langue de bois” (or “wooden tongue”, a term used to qualify politicians’ language: something which is vague or impossible to understand): “I quote [his work] when I find it interesting. I also express criticisms or distance myself from some of his positions, which can be explained by the fact that he does not live in Western society. He develops social, political and geostrategic analyses which belong to him, and which I don’t always share. ”(*) It is impossible to know what Ramadan’s position is!
http://www.workersliberty.org/node/4004
<span><span> As if Zionists do not make imprecatory statements about Arab's all day long, and even use imprecatory psalms in their services against them.
ReplyDelete</span></span>
Oh lord, the old Zionization charge! How silly.
<span>The Islamist, the journalist, and the defense of liberalism</span>
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=fd52e6a4-efc5-42fd-983b-1282a16ac8dd
I have to laugh, many who will sneer at and ridicule the far right Christians for their beliefs yet say not a word and even defend this guy and other Islamists! On many issues of morality and such he is basically in agreement with a Christian fundamentalist.
ReplyDeleteThe other day I mentioned that the reasons why groups like AQ rise to prominence is that all peaceful protest and reasonable dialogue is systematically cut off. This firing is just another brick in the wall. There are a billion Muslims in the world-they are going to be heard one way or the other.
ReplyDelete<span>The other day I mentioned that the reasons why groups like AQ rise to prominence is that all peaceful protest and reasonable dialogue is systematically cut off.</span>
ReplyDeleteSorry, I don't get this. Surely, you do not mean "all peaceful protest and reasonable dialogue is systematically cut off" in the West?
I would like to hear Ramadan speak. I must say I was impressed with this:
ReplyDelete<span>"To my regret, anti-Semitic utterances have been heard not only from frustrated and confused young Muslims, but also from certain Muslim intellectuals and imams," he says, "who in every crisis or political backsliding see the hand of the `Jewish lobby.' There is nothing in Islam that gives legitimization to Judeophobia, xenophobia and the rejection of any human being because of his religion or the group to which he belongs. Anti-Semitism has no justification in Islam, the message of which demands respect for the Jewish religion and spirit, which are considered a noble expression of the People of the Book." </span>
http://news.haaretz.co.il/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=168205
VZA, I don't get this either.
ReplyDeleteDid Al Qaeda try to assasinate the President of Indonesia two weeks ago because "all peaceful protest and reasonable dialogue is systematically cut off"?
Maybe you could argue that this is why AQ linked networks attack China. But even here I wouldn't agree. China is far more open and free than it has ever been before, and becoming progressively freer. So why is AQ attacking China more now than in the 1950s? {The counter argument is that AQ and Osama Bin Laden use to attack China more in the 1990s than they do now.}
Surely I do, especially concerning the Mideast. We son't talk to legitimate leaders of those people, labeling them terrorists. Instead we try to pick their leaders for them, usually opting to annoint some king or shah. Then when individuals try to come and discuss issues civilly in an academic or similar forum, thy're treated like this professor.
ReplyDelete...But really, the lack of meaningful discussion is not limited to the Mideast-at least before a decision is made, when discussion will really matter. Where was the discussion about the trillion dollar bailout? Who asked the hard questions BEFORE we went into Iraq? And the health care debate has been hijacked by all this death panel hysteria. Debate in this country is really phoney and put on as a showso people like you think they have some say in what happens.
That was me...Halascon forgot me again.
ReplyDeleteMuslims protest and speak out in the West on a regular basis. Any baloney that they can't do so is just that...baloney.
ReplyDeleteI think we are talking about two different things here. You, I think are talking about foreign policy and then later in the paragraph, about government policy in general.
ReplyDelete<span>I think we are talking about two different things here. You, I think, are talking about input on foreign policy and then later in the paragraph, about government policy in general.</span>
ReplyDeleteMy follow on comments were deleted again. Poor tgia, he just cant handle the truth..." :)
ReplyDeleteWhich ones, fleming? Rephrase!
ReplyDeleteSomething you should take to heart vza...LOL ;)
ReplyDeleteOh thats too bad vza, you probably have not read my site which speaks directly to corruption in these regions. However, I refuse to give many of the governments legtimacy, and I never will, many are mere conduits for foreign interest - so I lay responsibility at the door of who it ultimately belongs. If that frustrates you too bad, change the foundational landscape and i may address it differently - but so far vza, all you do is screech and wither when these issues are mentioned - and then you go to your time worn evil Islam nonsense.
ReplyDeleteNo anand, AQ did not attack Indonesia President because all peaceful dialogue was cut off, but because there is no dialogue and the people are severely oppressed by foreign interest, and been reduced to pauperism and slavery. this is because they are busy planting "free market" ideas and they fertilize it with the flesh and blood of the population.
ReplyDeleteChina, give me a break, i cleaned your proverbial clock recently on this issue you consummate liar, I do not have to repeat myself, people can just hit search here and put in "China" and see your severed remains on that post.
No, Joe is talking about the same issue vza, it is just one you refuse to acknowledge. You know, the one where you cover your ears and scream and shout that we are picking on poor America. However, until this foundational issue is addressed, your taking pot shots on who is in power and their ultimate responsibility is moot.
ReplyDeleteIts not worth it vza. Mullah TGIA will just delete my posts. He cannot claim its on account of anything other than he disagree with my views. Classic close minded control freak who refuses to consider any view other than his own.
ReplyDeleteI doubt he deleted anything.
ReplyDeleteI would let your post stand fleming, and than act the part of the mullah in a different way :)
ReplyDeleteIm sure there is no way I could prove it Molly. However I can assure you more than a few posts of mine have recently "disappeared" (mysteriously?) So what, are posts randomly disappearing.
ReplyDeleteIts not the only time its happened either. In fact there are other threads here where my comments have mysteriously disappeared.
Fleming, it is the "invisible hand"...LOL
ReplyDeleteClose to the rhetoric of the "invisible hand" -
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVAqEbULLOE
fleming, why don't you bypass the censors and start your own blog? I'd try to read it - honest!
ReplyDelete