Wednesday, May 20, 2009

The impact of Christians' exodus from the Mideast goes beyond religion

"Like other minorities around the world, Middle Eastern Christians have been among the first to suffer whenever their nations are invaded by foreign forces or torn apart by internal conflict, and they are among the hardest-hit in times of economic hardship.
Nearly half of the 800,000 Christians who resided in Iraq before the 2003 US-led invasion of the country have fled. Scores of Christian Palestinians, like their Muslim counterparts, have been driven out of their ancestral homeland, and those who remain behind are forced to endure the physical and economic hardships of living under Israeli occupation. Tens of thousands of Lebanese have fled their country's multiple conflicts, or have left their homeland to pursue better economic opportunities. Likewise, Jordan has lost around 20 percent of its Christians, in spite of the fact that their community enjoys full legal rights and official support. "
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23 comments:

  1. MaracatuMay 22, 2009 at 5:34 AM

    I'll let the readership judge that.

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  2. mollyMay 22, 2009 at 6:19 AM

    What are you advocating, VZA?  Dictatorship?

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  3. mollyMay 22, 2009 at 6:21 AM

    V, if they were tolerated, why would they convert?  And why would people not convert if they were persecuted? I could make argument either way myself, but they would just be guesses.  It can't be that simple.  And why were (according to you) North African Muslims more tolerant than ME ones?

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  4. vMay 22, 2009 at 8:21 AM

    Well Molly, i know what you're trying to get at, but it is just not there. read R.S.'s "painful" article below.  In my studies, as well as through original sources, there are just no large "covert or else' massacres, sorry.
     
    Going through the entire Oxford library on ME studies in the area (which is full of original sourcing), you are just hard pressed to find these caricature atrocities. Not even the most meticulous studies originated from the region show any of what is assume - I would say, by individuals who like to make up historical fairy tales for other purposes.

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  5. vMay 22, 2009 at 8:30 AM

    No vza is just being ignorant as usual, and glossing (she probably has no idea) over the fact of democratic governments which have been quashed in the ME by Western interventionism.  They read like a list and if they were put on a single scroll, would travel the expanse of a hundred foot room. It is only gross ignorance that would make a statement that "dictators" are the only way to rule in the region.

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  6. MoyhabinMay 22, 2009 at 9:37 AM

    Great post V! These are the kinds of comments that make my day in this blog: interesting, progressive and enlightening. :)

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  7. mollyMay 22, 2009 at 9:52 AM

    Are you advocating dictatorship, vza? 

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  8. mollyMay 22, 2009 at 9:54 AM

    V, I truly was  not trying to get at anything.  They were questions, that's all.

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  9. mollyMay 22, 2009 at 9:55 AM

    I know they were no convert or else massacres.  Why would they do they when the dhimma paid a tax.  But my question still stands.  Why is North Africa different?

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  10. vMay 22, 2009 at 10:25 AM

    Thanks Moy, your posts are always informative and inspirational :)

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  11. vzaMay 22, 2009 at 2:40 PM

    Of course not.

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  12. vzaMay 22, 2009 at 2:52 PM

    Part of the reason is that the North African Church was divided by heresies and schisms and was not as stable as the Middle Eastern Christian communities. Also, after the fall of Carthage to the Islamic armies, there was an exodus of Christians from North Africa. Many went to Sicily, for example.
    Muslim rule was for the most part tolerant. I recall reading about one Islamic ruler who allowed the Franciscans to preach to the Muslim communities.
    Of course, Tunisia, in particular, is noted for its relgious tolerance.
     
     
    http://www.magharebia.com/cocoon/awi/xhtml1/en_GB/features/awi/reportage/2008/06/06/reportage-01
     
    http://www.arabamericannews.com/news/index.php?mod=article&cat=ArabWorld&article=982

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  13. mollyMay 22, 2009 at 5:21 PM

    Freaking messages keep appearing and disappearing!

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  14. mollyMay 22, 2009 at 5:23 PM

    The main reason is...they are not Jewish.

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  15. mollyMay 22, 2009 at 5:24 PM

    VZA, only part of your comment shows.  Can you retype it?  Thanks.

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  16. vzaMay 22, 2009 at 5:47 PM

    <table class="js-singleCommentBodyT" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%">
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    <div class="js-singleCommentText">Part of the reason is that the North African Church was divided by heresies and schisms and was not as stable as the Middle Eastern Christian communities. Also, after the fall of Carthage to the Islamic armies, there was an exodus of Christians from North Africa. Many went to Sicily, for example. 
    Muslim rule was for the most part tolerant. I recall reading about one Islamic ruler who allowed the Franciscans to preach to the Muslim communities. 
    Of course, Tunisia, in particular, is noted for its relgious tolerance. 
      
      
    http://www.magharebia.com/cocoon/awi/xhtml1/en_GB/features/awi/reportage/2008/06/06/reportage-01 
      
    http://www.arabamericannews.com/news/index.php?mod=article&cat=ArabWorld&article=982</div>
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  17. vzaMay 22, 2009 at 5:48 PM

    Part of the reason is that the North African Church was divided by heresies and schisms and was not as stable as the Middle Eastern Christian communities. Also, after the fall of Carthage to the Islamic armies, there was an exodus of Christians from North Africa. Many went to Sicily, for example.   
    Muslim rule was for the most part tolerant. I recall reading about one Islamic ruler who allowed the Franciscans to preach to the Muslim communities.   
    Of course, Tunisia, in particular, is noted for its relgious tolerance.   
        
        
    http://www.magharebia.com/cocoon/awi/xhtml1/en_GB/features/awi/reportage/2008/06/06/reportage-01   
        
    http://www.arabamericannews.com/news/index.php?mod=article&cat=ArabWorld&article=982
     

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  18. vzaMay 22, 2009 at 5:49 PM

    I just did, Molly. Any better?

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  19. thankgodimatheistMay 22, 2009 at 6:33 PM

    What do you mean?

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  20. thankgodimatheistMay 22, 2009 at 6:34 PM

    Freaking messages keep appearing and disappearing!
    ------------
    What you mean?

    ReplyDelete
  21. thankgodimatheistMay 22, 2009 at 11:58 PM

    Freaking messages keep appearing and disappearing! 
    ------------ 
    What do you mean?

    ReplyDelete
  22. vMay 23, 2009 at 3:32 AM

    No, the main reason is that they are racist Zionists colonials.  They do not represent the majority of the Jewish community, they never have and never will. It is the confounding of these two that is the chief deception (Zionism and Judaism), as if you were naturally Jewish means that you would murder and steal from people - that is an antisemitic caricature.

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  23. mollyMay 23, 2009 at 5:55 AM

    comment

    ReplyDelete